mikebv 10,242 Posted December 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Fromafar said: It’s always been it’s our money and it’s our ball.They never seem to see the big picture.Short Term thinking is all they see. And it is sometimes very 'short term' indeed... An example being.... How many times have MC members been on the phone talking with promoters at the supposed 'tapes up' time because one of the teams (or sometimes both) have riders who should/shouldn't ride due to some rule or regulation that may (or may not) have been contravened...? With fans impatiently waiting in the cold and watching on, non plussed as to how such nonsense can be allowed to pervade, and just wanting the meeting to be given the go ahead to start.. A ludicrous way to run a supposed professional sport, yet must be seen as a perfectly 'normal' situation by those who put these things together, hence they have the process in place in the first place.. For me, they really do need saving from themselves, which can only be a step forward... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikebv said: And it is sometimes very 'short term' indeed... An example being.... How many times have MC members been on the phone talking with promoters at the supposed 'tapes up' time because one of the teams (or sometimes both) have riders who should/shouldn't ride due to some rule or regulation that may (or may not) have been contravened...? With fans impatiently waiting in the cold and watching on, non plussed as to how such nonsense can be allowed to pervade, and just wanting the meeting to be given the go ahead to start.. A ludicrous way to run a supposed professional sport, yet must be seen as a perfectly 'normal' situation by those who put these things together, hence they have the process in place in the first place.. For me, they really do need saving from themselves, which can only be a step forward... This may have been the case some years ago, but a few seasons ago a system of pre-validation of line-ups was introduced which prevented any issues persisting until race day. Edited December 17, 2020 by NeilWatson Typo 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted December 18, 2020 On 12/17/2020 at 3:03 PM, mikebv said: 100% agree however, not going to ever happen I suspect.. It is beyond saving as a 'proper team sport' now I would say, given all the nonsense that goes on regulations wise.. When you have to have lots of supplementary rules for every rule that isnt clear, or open to interpretation, then you are probably on a loser before you even start, and when you then need an ultimate caveat of "ahhh, but you see, this is Speedway" to often ignore your very own rules, then you are definitely not going to succeed... The time for change was a long time ago, when people still attended in numbers but it didnt happen.. It's not like they didn't get enough feedback from either those in the stands, those who wrote letters to the various Speedway media outlets and, ultimately, the most telling piece of feedback of all, seeing their stadiums less full on an almost annual basis as people voted 'with their feet'... A truly possibly once in a lifetime opportunity to reset the sport with a clear five years or so plan was gifted to them via the pandemic with lots of 'downtime' to discuss the way forward at length, and in intricate detail, and they could have undertaken a huge amount of market research from fans (and ex fans), via all kinds of social media, (either in house or on public forums), to help build these plans.. Was this opportunity taken? Well what do we have after 9 months of no Speedway? We have individual tracks breaking out from the umbrella organisation and issuing their own adhoc press releases questioning what the (already agreed), points limit is to be next year.. And we are still waiting for riders to decide if they want to put Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France etc etc as their priority before riding over here.. Not great really is it? Bang on. And it’s such a shame. The worry for me is the amount of people here who listen to the propaganda and think everything is just rosey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
East End Fan 426 Posted December 19, 2020 6 hours ago, Ben91 said: Bang on. And it’s such a shame. The worry for me is the amount of people here who listen to the propaganda and think everything is just rosey. No one thinks it is "just rosey", but by the same token, it's not that bad either given the highly unusual circumstances the sport (and the country) finds itself in. Brexit causing a whole new set of headaches, some known, some not, on top of other rider problems caused by the Pandemic. Add to that some interference in our affairs by Poland ( must admit I do not fully understand this situation) and there will be decisions taken that many fans will not like. My personal complaint is that all this should have been sorted within the last month. Maybe we will get a big Christmas present with all the details we are looking for from the BSPA ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted December 19, 2020 1 hour ago, East End Fan said: No one thinks it is "just rosey", but by the same token, it's not that bad either given the highly unusual circumstances the sport (and the country) finds itself in. Brexit causing a whole new set of headaches, some known, some not, on top of other rider problems caused by the Pandemic. Add to that some interference in our affairs by Poland ( must admit I do not fully understand this situation) and there will be decisions taken that many fans will not like. My personal complaint is that all this should have been sorted within the last month. Maybe we will get a big Christmas present with all the details we are looking for from the BSPA ? There are people who think there is nothing wrong with the way Speedway is run in this country. Unfortunately there are too many excuses and too many sloping shoulders. Why is British speedway in the doldrums? ”Poland.” No. ”Brexit.” No. ”Covid.” No. It’s time people took responsibility rather than looking for something else to blame because they can’t keep their own house in order. The sport won’t be around much longer otherwise. It’ll be one man and his dog at the carcass of the National Speedway stadium still expecting to see Jason Doyle and Nicki Pedersen turn up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.D 462 Posted December 19, 2020 Im currently reading John Berry's (Ipswich promoter and England manager) book 'Confessions of a speedway promoter' and he said then in the late 70's early 80's that the sport needed an Independent governing body to run the sport with an elected board of promoters to help and advise. He was spot on 40 years ago and he's spot on now even more so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,393 Posted December 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Ben91 said: There are people who think there is nothing wrong with the way Speedway is run in this country. Unfortunately there are too many excuses and too many sloping shoulders. Why is British speedway in the doldrums? ”Poland.” No. ”Brexit.” No. ”Covid.” No. It’s time people took responsibility rather than looking for something else to blame because they can’t keep their own house in order. The sport won’t be around much longer otherwise. It’ll be one man and his dog at the carcass of the National Speedway stadium still expecting to see Jason Doyle and Nicki Pedersen turn up. an easy statement to make but we don't control the riders - they're not contracted like footballers, they're self employed and will go where the money is, IE Poland. And yes, Brexit is another reason - we won't be flying in foreigners at the drop of a hat, we won't be able to. So teams will be weakened, like it or not and the sport needs to reset the 3 divisions to accomodate this ensuring teams are well matched. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted December 19, 2020 58 minutes ago, ch958 said: an easy statement to make but we don't control the riders - they're not contracted like footballers, they're self employed and will go where the money is, IE Poland. And yes, Brexit is another reason - we won't be flying in foreigners at the drop of a hat, we won't be able to. So teams will be weakened, like it or not and the sport needs to reset the 3 divisions to accomodate this ensuring teams are well matched. You say this as if most of our top tier riders are regulars in the top league in Poland where their imposed restriction is in place. They’re not. Certainly not at Championship level. Brexit has been coming for four years. Plans could have been made. As for European riders coming in the goalposts will now just be similar to those in place for riders outside of the EU previously. We have always had very little trouble with Australians coming in. The above issues have an impact but they are not the reason British Speedway is in terminal decline. They’re just convenient excuses to shift the blame from where it actually should lie and some people actually lap it up and believe it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted December 19, 2020 7 hours ago, ch958 said: an easy statement to make but we don't control the riders - they're not contracted like footballers, they're self employed and will go where the money is, IE Poland. And yes, Brexit is another reason - we won't be flying in foreigners at the drop of a hat, we won't be able to. So teams will be weakened, like it or not and the sport needs to reset the 3 divisions to accomodate this ensuring teams are well matched. Quite agree, but some on here choose not to appreciate those points and continue the same old same old garbage that they have spouted since year dot.Look at the above post of mikebv moaning about teams being disputed just before tapes up, not appreciating or knowing the post by NeilWatson who has brought his usual wisdom on here. Ben91 makes the assumption, long held, that "there are people who think there is nothing wrong with the way speedway is run in this country". How wrong can he be, but why change a option long held and never going to go away. The running of speedway changes every year and is done so in the belief the changes are either necessary or imposed by others. In a few years time the same people will probably still look back and say " it was so much better in the old days". It's a badge of honour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,334 Posted December 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tsunami said: Quite agree, but some on here choose not to appreciate those points and continue the same old same old garbage that they have spouted since year dot.Look at the above post of mikebv moaning about teams being disputed just before tapes up, not appreciating or knowing the post by NeilWatson who has brought his usual wisdom on here. Ben91 makes the assumption, long held, that "there are people who think there is nothing wrong with the way speedway is run in this country". How wrong can he be, but why change a option long held and never going to go away. The running of speedway changes every year and is done so in the belief the changes are either necessary or imposed by others. In a few years time the same people will probably still look back and say " it was so much better in the old days". It's a badge of honour. These people will be sitting in their house though,and the problem is the sport is not attracting any people to replace them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted December 19, 2020 54 minutes ago, Fromafar said: These people will be sitting in their house though,and the problem is the sport is not attracting any people to replace them. Yes that is what happens to all sports, but the speedway authorities genuinely try to reverse the trend to keep the sport alive, but the 'usuals' still harp on regardless. All initiatives are criticised and the moral in the sport goes down and down. Plans to pay for marketing consultants, reduce admission fees, higher riders pay, engine changes, riders in a team , number of heats, having second halves, protected reserve slots, fixed gate positions, match points, tac subs, fixed league race nights, etc, have all been implemented and criticised but they are trying to please all but they only please the few. At the end of the day, the sport is all about 4 blokes racing around a oval for 4 laps. The rest is just froth. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,334 Posted December 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Tsunami said: Yes that is what happens to all sports, but the speedway authorities genuinely try to reverse the trend to keep the sport alive, but the 'usuals' still harp on regardless. All initiatives are criticised and the moral in the sport goes down and down. Plans to pay for marketing consultants, reduce admission fees, higher riders pay, engine changes, riders in a team , number of heats, having second halves, protected reserve slots, fixed gate positions, match points, tac subs, fixed league race nights, etc, have all been implemented and criticised but they are trying to please all but they only please the few. At the end of the day, the sport is all about 4 blokes racing around a oval for 4 laps. The rest is just froth. OK everything is rosey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted December 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Fromafar said: OK everything is rosey. is it froth, or dross? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,334 Posted December 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said: is it froth, or dross? Judging by the way the fans are disappearing ,I suspect the latter. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
East End Fan 426 Posted December 19, 2020 18 hours ago, Ben91 said: There are people who think there is nothing wrong with the way Speedway is run in this country. Unfortunately there are too many excuses and too many sloping shoulders. Why is British speedway in the doldrums? ”Poland.” No. ”Brexit.” No. ”Covid.” No. It’s time people took responsibility rather than looking for something else to blame because they can’t keep their own house in order. The sport won’t be around much longer otherwise. It’ll be one man and his dog at the carcass of the National Speedway stadium still expecting to see Jason Doyle and Nicki Pedersen turn up. This is a very jaundiced view. In certain areas, Speedway thrives and, although many people over many years have predicted its death, we still have over 20 clubs still operating. It would not matter which rules are put in place, not everyone will agree with them. Good example of this is the Guest Rider rule. Almost to a man, Speedway fans everywhere hate this rule, BUT if their team uses guest who wins them a match, for one night only they love the rule. Same with points limits. If the limit happens to suit your team you are all in favour of it and vice verse. We are a fickle lot. I wonder how Ben91 would change the game??? Maybe he'll tell us ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
