Whats actually going on?

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

15 hours ago, mikebv said:

Wasn't it part of the contract that Sky demanded that the "top riders" had to ride over here?

Speaking to one now ex promoter at the time, a rather large portion of the "Sky money" pretty much got swallowed up by his "World Class" top rider..

So much money dripped through so many fingers, with the end result?

The World Class riders 'effed off' to more lucrative pastures new, and the huge Sky investment left zero legacy for the sport from which to grow..

Amazingly ludicrous really....

I think you're right.

But being uncharacteristically cynical I can't help but wonder how many people on the terraces at the time would have preferred 'world class' riders to putting money aside for development

[enotian 562]

10 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I think you're right.

But being uncharacteristically cynical I can't help but wonder how many people on the terraces at the time would have preferred 'world class' riders to putting money aside for development

exactly.  who ever got excited about a healthy balance sheet.

the trick is being able to do both.

it's the failing of the competitive sporting environment where contracts are negotiated annually and top men are a scare resource with a format where you can't win without one. 

[George Dodds 310]

On 3/28/2021 at 1:45 PM, enotian said:

exactly.  who ever got excited about a healthy balance sheet.

the trick is being able to do both.

it's the failing of the competitive sporting environment where contracts are negotiated annually and top men are a scare resource with a format where you can't win without one. 

to be fair football, rugby and cricket have all had huge injections of TV money annually for decades and despite literally getting millions of pounds per match virtually all of their clubs and counties are financial basket cases. Speedway was small fry and quickly hoovered up by the "stars". What it did do was develop a culture of watching speedway from the sofa for hundreds who realised that £15 a month would give you Sky Sports while a night at the track cost £25+ (at the time) each trip to watch the action live at the track. 

The winners were satellite TV sports channels.

[cityrebel 2,960]

12 hours ago, George Dodds said:

to be fair football, rugby and cricket have all had huge injections of TV money annually for decades and despite literally getting millions of pounds per match virtually all of their clubs and counties are financial basket cases. Speedway was small fry and quickly hoovered up by the "stars". What it did do was develop a culture of watching speedway from the sofa for hundreds who realised that £15 a month would give you Sky Sports while a night at the track cost £25+ (at the time) each trip to watch the action live at the track. 

The winners were satellite TV sports channels.

The task in getting the couch potatoes back through the turnstiles, is virtually impossible. That ship sailed many years ago.

[George Dodds 310]

14 hours ago, cityrebel said:

The task in getting the couch potatoes back through the turnstiles, is virtually impossible. That ship sailed many years ago.

very true and really not even worth the bother, better to look for new audiences who don't come with the baggage of those who see the past as a land of milk and honey through their rosetinted spectacles.

Trouble is you can't even get them to pay a decent amount for watching livestream. "I'll gladly pay a couple of quid ... but a fiver's too much". "How do I watch Premier Sports without paying a subscription".  Won't contribute towards the sport but want it run to their specifications.

 

[Fromafar 10,333]

2 hours ago, George Dodds said:

very true and really not even worth the bother, better to look for new audiences who don't come with the baggage of those who see the past as a land of milk and honey through their rosetinted spectacles.

Trouble is you can't even get them to pay a decent amount for watching livestream. "I'll gladly pay a couple of quid ... but a fiver's too much". "How do I watch Premier Sports without paying a subscription".  Won't contribute towards the sport but want it run to their specifications.

 

Good Luck with the new audiences who don’t have rose tinted glasses.When will 

the penny drop that there are other activities on offer that provide better value for money outside the sport.The sport is not attracting new fans in numbers in the UK in the last 10-15 years.I certainly don’t know the answer to get them back,  but certainly looks a long  difficult task.I am still a regular attender but it’s more a social habit these days than the entertainment factor.Hopefully at Berwick  the new track shape will help in the entertainment level.Money will get much tighter for a lot of people after this pandemic with possible job losses being a factor.

It will be interesting whether the year out will rekindle the enthusiasm at the track and attract bigger numbers , time will tell.

My one solution is that the sport has to take a step back to a Semi- Professional level regarding riders wages to cut the wages Bill to match crowd levels.It certainly won’t effect the entertainment level IMO.

[cityrebel 2,960]

I think the promoters are praying for a boom period after the pandemic, but it could easily go the other way. I'm hoping that grassroots football gets the nod on April 12th and speedway on May 17th. I'm getting fed up with this lark now.

[old bob at herne bay 828]

Just to add to the "fromafar"  post .... my last regular attendance was at Lakeside as a social habit with a small group of regular attendees. All had been supporting speedway for 50 years plus.

Has to be said that what turned out to be the last season at Lakeside the endless delays to the meetings, the petty antics of riders on the start line made watching 15 heats of speedway a test of endurance on the cold and draughty grass/mud banks in the Spartan facilities at Lakeside. 

For the first time in over 50 years I found myself leaving the track before the end of the meeting. I knew then it was time to hang up my programme board/ gas rattle.

It's so much more comfortable watching the delays and hold ups from your sofa with a beer , and you can record it all and fast forward 50% of the stuff with practice starts/gardening and air fence repairs.

Will I go back again?  Maybe only for selected meetings to see Jason Crump.  I will put up with the delays and gardening to see him one more time.  

 

 

 

 

[enotian 562]

On 3/30/2021 at 9:26 AM, George Dodds said:

to be fair football, rugby and cricket have all had huge injections of TV money annually for decades and despite literally getting millions of pounds per match virtually all of their clubs and counties are financial basket cases. Speedway was small fry and quickly hoovered up by the "stars". What it did do was develop a culture of watching speedway from the sofa for hundreds who realised that £15 a month would give you Sky Sports while a night at the track cost £25+ (at the time) each trip to watch the action live at the track. 

The winners were satellite TV sports channels.

I don't disagree.  All sports suffer from the competitive nature in which the most talented purveyors can place demands for their services.  Perhaps in speedway (athough the £ signs are smaller) the pool of top level talent is more limited, which magnifies the problem.

I also think that you might be right about the culture of watching from the sofa.  But I don't think this extends to other sports. I imagine crowd levels at Football, Rugby and (limited overs and test) cricket were higher after satellite TV took over the coverage.

I've always found physically attending sports events far more preferable than watching from home but what is the obvious difference between other sports on TV and speedway which has meant attendances have increased elsewhere but decreased for speedway meetings?

I think there's a follow the herd culture and if you watch an event in which there are full stadiums of people visibly enjoying themselves you'd be more inclined to think 'I wish I was there'.  Cut to coverage of league speedway........  not a lot there to convince the herd mentality to follow suit.

Maybe league coverage isn't the way forward? Maybe speedway on TV should be more limited to bigger events which can attract bigger crowds and perhaps have a bigger production budget.  How about trying to sell a Speedway Festival to broadcasters.  Package up all the grand finals into a week long event during the summer, make it an occasion make those watching at home 'wish they were there'.    

[George Dodds 310]

56 minutes ago, enotian said:

I don't disagree.  All sports suffer from the competitive nature in which the most talented purveyors can place demands for their services.  Perhaps in speedway (athough the £ signs are smaller) the pool of top level talent is more limited, which magnifies the problem.

I also think that you might be right about the culture of watching from the sofa.  But I don't think this extends to other sports. I imagine crowd levels at Football, Rugby and (limited overs and test) cricket were higher after satellite TV took over the coverage.

I've always found physically attending sports events far more preferable than watching from home but what is the obvious difference between other sports on TV and speedway which has meant attendances have increased elsewhere but decreased for speedway meetings?

I think there's a follow the herd culture and if you watch an event in which there are full stadiums of people visibly enjoying themselves you'd be more inclined to think 'I wish I was there'.  Cut to coverage of league speedway........  not a lot there to convince the herd mentality to follow suit.

Maybe league coverage isn't the way forward? Maybe speedway on TV should be more limited to bigger events which can attract bigger crowds and perhaps have a bigger production budget.  How about trying to sell a Speedway Festival to broadcasters.  Package up all the grand finals into a week long event during the summer, make it an occasion make those watching at home 'wish they were there'.    

Speedway also has its unique, self-inflicted problems. In no other sport could you have participants appearing for four of five different clubs in different countries in the same week.

If you want to watch Phil Foden you either buy a ticket for a Man City or England game or settle down to watch him on the TV for one of those two teams. He won't also appear for Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Legia Warsaw and Paris St Germain over the next three days.

That also means that the introduction of any form of pan-European tournament on the lines of the Champions League or European Rugby Cup is off the table. It even prevents a meaningful Inter-League cup. Arguably it also affects the pulling power of individual meetings. 

It is difficult to build the narrative of something/someone unique happening at your local track when they could appear multiple times somewhere else in Europe, on your TV within the next few hours.

 

[mikebv 10,240]

1 hour ago, enotian said:

I don't disagree.  All sports suffer from the competitive nature in which the most talented purveyors can place demands for their services.  Perhaps in speedway (athough the £ signs are smaller) the pool of top level talent is more limited, which magnifies the problem.

I also think that you might be right about the culture of watching from the sofa.  But I don't think this extends to other sports. I imagine crowd levels at Football, Rugby and (limited overs and test) cricket were higher after satellite TV took over the coverage.

I've always found physically attending sports events far more preferable than watching from home but what is the obvious difference between other sports on TV and speedway which has meant attendances have increased elsewhere but decreased for speedway meetings?

I think there's a follow the herd culture and if you watch an event in which there are full stadiums of people visibly enjoying themselves you'd be more inclined to think 'I wish I was there'.  Cut to coverage of league speedway........  not a lot there to convince the herd mentality to follow suit.

Maybe league coverage isn't the way forward? Maybe speedway on TV should be more limited to bigger events which can attract bigger crowds and perhaps have a bigger production budget.  How about trying to sell a Speedway Festival to broadcasters.  Package up all the grand finals into a week long event during the summer, make it an occasion make those watching at home 'wish they were there'.    

When Speedway was "booming" in the 70's, it was invariably only individual and world team/pairs events that got shown nationally. .

The regional ITV stations were the ones that showed 'team racing' with it only being syndicated to the home teams' area, (or sometimes both home and away teams' areas)...

That national TV coverage being beamed into literally millions of households several times a month during the summer had a huge positive knock on impact to domestic Speedway...

You could watch Peter Collins beat the world from the back just after 3pm on a Saturday, have your tea, then go and watch him do it live that evening...

People are invariably sheep like in their decisions as to what is 'cool'...

Which is why it's always baffled me why the BSPL allow matches to be shown live in front of "one (old) man and his (nearly as old), dog"....

A two hour advert which will get shown several times more....

Crackers...

[cityrebel 2,960]

The delays are a killer for speedway. Meetings that start late, excessive tractor grading, double R/R, the list goes on. Most sports, with the exception of cricket run like clockwork. A slicker show would definitely encourage more people to go, but the majority of promoters don't see it.

[enotian 562]

23 minutes ago, George Dodds said:

Speedway also has its unique, self-inflicted problems. In no other sport could you have participants appearing for four of five different clubs in different countries in the same week.

If you want to watch Phil Foden you either buy a ticket for a Man City or England game or settle down to watch him on the TV for one of those two teams. He won't also appear for Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Legia Warsaw and Paris St Germain over the next three days.

That also means that the introduction of any form of pan-European tournament on the lines of the Champions League or European Rugby Cup is off the table. It even prevents a meaningful Inter-League cup. Arguably it also affects the pulling power of individual meetings. 

It is difficult to build the narrative of something/someone unique happening at your local track when they could appear multiple times somewhere else in Europe, on your TV within the next few hours.

 

Whilst again I don't disagree I think it's becoming more common place.  If you look at cricket someone like Jos Buttler will be able to name a half dozen teams he plays for in different competitions around the world.  But he's entertainment and the competitions are viewed as distinct separate brands that mostly don't run concurrently.  So he's in the Big Bash for a month, then at the IPL for another month, the Hundred at another point and domestic T20 some other time.

Whilst the big names are a massive part of these competitions it's also the experience which is being sold.

[mikebv 10,240]

19 hours ago, enotian said:

Whilst again I don't disagree I think it's becoming more common place.  If you look at cricket someone like Jos Buttler will be able to name a half dozen teams he plays for in different competitions around the world.  But he's entertainment and the competitions are viewed as distinct separate brands that mostly don't run concurrently.  So he's in the Big Bash for a month, then at the IPL for another month, the Hundred at another point and domestic T20 some other time.

Whilst the big names are a massive part of these competitions it's also the experience which is being sold.

Rugby Union and Cricket run their leagues with the best players expected to be missing for a good portion of the season.. 

What they both have going for them though is the fact that internationally both sports have done "pretty well" over the past couple of decades which then allows their domestic games to feed off their success..  

And media coverage and sponsorship filter down to their level too...

A very successful "Great Britain" in Speedway is really the only way the sport domestically will get interest and prosper again..

 

[mickthemuppet 976]

All sports have had a decline in attendances including football, due to television and especially Sky as one of the most importance things that changed this is it is shown live.