Bagpuss 10,757 Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, proud panther said: Surely Panthers will go with Shanes ? Teams would be daft to not snap up the grade 4’s but I really hope Lynn plump for somebody much younger and less experienced at number seven. It’s pretty gutting that Shanes, Bates, Bacon et al are even on the list as I really thought British Speedway had made a proper good decision for once. A real let down. Edited February 10, 2021 by Bagpuss 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,486 Posted February 10, 2021 42 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Whoa there chaps... No slight on Eastie... I ain't got one problem with their team whatsoever... Just pointing out on the comment made by mmmethanol that Jason has been missed off the list and that the process as far as we are aware is supposed to have your Rising Star at 7, also what Scunny Phil has stated is that if riders opt out of the System they may not get picked as RS riders will get preference; stupid I know but it will be interesting to see what happens in this instance if it was just a typo omission of Jason Edwards not being on the list or if he has opted out and if so will Eastie be forced to put in a 2* rider off the list to complete their team... So whose to blame? well its the system stupid; because in most organisations the buck stops with the boss; but not the BSPL; so who is the boss? is that the Chairman Rob Godfrey and will he take the buck for this clock-up? well he's never seen the buck; in fact he wont know that there is a buck; in fact we will be informed no doubt that it was to his profound regret that no one alerted him to the existence of any buck. During the period under discussion, you see, it was not standard BSPL procedure to monitor the buck... With hindsight he will accept that there was a buck and that if he had known at that time that there was a buck he would have certainly acted upon it and dealt with it and that the buck could have been prevented. But tragically his attention was never drawn to the buck hence the buck does not stop with him, The problem he will advise is with the system; which he had nothing to do with; neither its construct or formulation only its delivery so there is no one to blame other than the system and as such there is nothing to see here so just move on... Next years BSPL press release... Regards THJ Eastbourne are breaking no rules they have one rising star in the team . I would suggest Jason has declined the offer to join the scheme as his previously agreed deal is substantially more than the capped pay rates that the scheme insists on. He can join the scheme at a later stage if he wants to or is invited to. He will ride at reserve and his position in the team is not protected like the other reserve. Also remember the position is protected not the rider so they can be dropped. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 2,983 Posted February 10, 2021 I can't remember reading anything official stating that the "rising star" will remain at reserve all year, is this the case? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted February 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said: Eastbourne are breaking no rules they have one rising star in the team . I would suggest Jason has declined the offer to join the scheme as his previously agreed deal is substantially more than the capped pay rates that the scheme insists on. He can join the scheme at a later stage if he wants to or is invited to. He will ride at reserve and his position in the team is not protected like the other reserve. Also remember the position is protected not the rider so they can be dropped. So the rising star can go in at 6 instead of 7? Regards THJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, szkocjasid said: I can't remember reading anything official stating that the "rising star" will remain at reserve all year, is this the case? No... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 2,983 Posted February 10, 2021 59 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: Teams would be daft to not snap up the grade 4’s but I really hope Lynn plump for somebody much younger and less experienced at number seven. It’s pretty gutting that Shanes, Bates, Bacon et al are even on the list as I really thought British Speedway had made a proper good decision for once. A real let down. Bacon has improved every year & never had a Prem team spot, he's clearly the sort of rider you want in the system, you could argue against Bates or Shanes I guess! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzac 1,013 Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, TotallyHonestJohn said: So the rising star can go in at 6 instead of 7? Regards THJ Has it ever really made any difference? Virtually every meeting I've been to normally 3 of the 4 programmed reserve rides have been switched to suit the meeting . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,486 Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: So the rising star can go in at 6 instead of 7? Regards THJ I don't know the answer to that but nothing has been announced either way 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 2,983 Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: From what I am hearing you are correct... Next season a max of 6 star points for PL team so a 4 + 2 or 3 + 3 rider as Rising Star Reserves and for the CL its 4 Star points per team so a 3 + 1 or a 2 + 2.. That would be far to simple to understand for it to be implemented lol! However I worry using that system grade 2 riders would struggle for team spots as 3+1 would be far the better option (a 2.90 rider with a promising newcomer vs 2 riders who couldn't reach a 2.00 ave)! So weaker riders could get one year then tossed on the scrapheap each season! Edited February 10, 2021 by szkocjasid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss 10,757 Posted February 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: Bacon has improved every year & never had a Prem team spot, he's clearly the sort of rider you want in the system, you could argue against Bates or Shanes I guess! That’s fair enough and I’d have extended the scheme so that riders like him, Shanes, Mountain and Bates could ride at six with an U21 at seven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
screm 8,050 Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: Teams would be daft to not snap up the grade 4’s but I really hope Lynn plump for somebody much younger and less experienced at number seven. It’s pretty gutting that Shanes, Bates, Bacon et al are even on the list as I really thought British Speedway had made a proper good decision for once. A real let down. With Leon Flint and Drew Kemp in grade 3 there should be plenty of takers for those two. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 2,983 Posted February 10, 2021 Doesn't make a difference this season but may for future years, Jordan Jenkins is 2* rather than 1* because he rode a whole TWO matches for Birmingham in 2019! So in the future if a 1* rider gets injured / loses form near the end of the season it could be tough to sign a replacement, cause who would be willing to race a handful of matches at the end of the season if it means they'd be graded 2* the following year? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted February 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: I cannot echo and agree with the above statements enough. Ive always felt the best approach is to get places dependant on merit rather than x criteria, ultimately if you are good enough you are in. If you cannot achieve the required level at a lower league why should you deserve a chance to move up. Like many i can see so many flaws in the new system not least that better riders could and likely will miss out on places due to complex team building restrictions all the while lesser riders will have the confidence beaten out of them being the whipping boys. When was the last time you saw a rider with no mechanical issues or falls lapped..... I agree that riders should obtain their place on merit and not handed a place on a plate. But remember in 2021 we're only talking about 12 places. Between the 3* and 1* grades there are easily 12 riders of capable of being competitive in the 2021 CL. If certain promoters decide to pick an uncompetitive RS then that's their choice. The old 2.00 reserve didn't always go to a rider on merit anyway. How often did the points limit dictate that 2.00 pointer was thrown in to get under the limit while a better rider on say 2.32 was left on the side lines. At least this removes that issue. I think the idea of creating a pathway for young British riders is a good one. Unfortunately the 2.00 assessed starting average isn't enough to do that. How many times has a promising youngster upped their 2.00 average only to be replaced by an old hand on a lower average but perceived to be an improvement. Seen this at Newcastle many times, Andersson, Schramm, Mills being brought in at #7 based on past reputation. With youngsters dropped. How many times did James Burkinshaw move away from Sheffield get a low average to return to the Tigers the following season to increase his average? As I've posted previously this attempt looks over engineered to get to the position of securing a development pathway for British youngsters. All that needed to be done was to remove those old hands from obtaining team places on low averages. Easily done. Just set a minimum assessed average based on rider experience. Just like new British riders start on a 2.00 over 60 matches have a minimum average of 3.00 over 90 matches have a minimum average of 4.00 over 120 matches have a minimum average of 5.00 any non UK riders have a minimum average of 6.00 For example if a rider with over 120 matches has an actual CMA of 3.33 they can still obtain a team place but on a 5.00 average for team building. Naturally creating team places for inexperienced British riders but also incentivising them to progress their performances to achieve the minimum average. It would mean that teams could build a side with strength in depth if they couldn't afford/find top heat leaders and still have a competitive side. As it stands the 15 heat format already favours teams with strong 1st and 2nd heat leaders. This new system compounds that by levelling out heats 2, 8, 12 and 14 which teams with strong reserves would normally have had an advantage in. That balance doesn't exist anymore so if you haven't got a strong top two (or a wonder kid at #7) you're going to struggle. In summary a good strategy poorly implemented. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: Doesn't make a difference this season but may for future years, Jordan Jenkins is 2* rather than 1* because he rode a whole TWO matches for Birmingham in 2019! So in the future if a 1* rider gets injured / loses form near the end of the season it could be tough to sign a replacement, cause who would be willing to race a handful of matches at the end of the season if it means they'd be graded 2* the following year? I don't think we can apply these gradings to anything other than 2021. Surely, for example, Jordan Palin doesn't remain a 1* for the next 5 years!!!!! By 2026 he could be in the SGP FFS 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted February 11, 2021 9 hours ago, enotian said: I don't think we can apply these gradings to anything other than 2021. Surely, for example, Jordan Palin doesn't remain a 1* for the next 5 years!!!!! By 2026 he could be in the SGP FFS What about "Young Dan Bewley", and "Young Robert Lambert"? Not had that many years experience in the UK and still very much 'Rising Stars'.. Maybe a 5* grade could be introduced..? But start them at the back like Stock Cars do.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
