Who are the Rising Stars?

[enotian 562]

I suppose the difficulty in publicising the 5 year plan is that it probably changes based on rider development.

I guess the intention is that riders progress from 1 to 4 star but what happens if one on the named riders progresses to heat leader status and the other don't.  Do you have one 4* on a 9 point average still riding at #7 in the PL?

As it stands, if this is the correct list, it looks about right in terms of ability/experience across the groups. I hadn't expected over 21 riders to be included but they needed at least six. You can basically see how average and experience have dictated the grading without it being stated.

At least the gradings will mean that no young riders will be omitted because their average is 0.05 over a point limit.

Surprised not to see Zach Watjknecht/George Wood on the list so I presume those other previously retired inclusions have expressed an interest in riding? 

[enotian 562]

2 minutes ago, mac101 said:

E Perks ave last year was just over 6 and K Bickleys was just over 3 but in the same grade 

Yes but those are their CL averages and grade 4 doesn't apply to the CL only PL. I don't think Bickley has a PL average to compare but I don't like Perks was a 6.

[HGould 2,213]

Maybe we are all looking in the wrong place.

British Speedway communication is an absolute cesspit of incompetence.

It needs an expert and not someone whose main claim to fame is yelling "woofy woofy woofy" like an inebriated soccer hooligan

[Fromafar 10,360]

19 minutes ago, enotian said:

Yes but those are their CL averages and grade 4 doesn't apply to the CL only PL. I don't think Bickley has a PL average to compare but I don't like Perks was a 6.

Back of a fag packet grading as usual.

[Najjer 2,889]

It’ll be interesting to see what happens when/of say a rider really over achieves and scores highly.

Do they move into the main body of the side?
Do they stay at reserve?
Do they get regraded at the end of the season?
Do they end up no longer being a ‘rising star’?
Is the 5 year plan for the current crop of riders along with additions or is the 5 year plan for the teams meaning that riders could be removed from the system after say 1 or 2 years once they reach a certain level?

Or more importantly... Are we just going to be making it up as we go along?

Edited February 1, 2021 by Najjer

[phillwhitewasmad 1,487]

the list posted is the list sent out but it has been edited in all there are three pages to it and there is a peace missing from that page that is on here describing how it works. i agree there are one or two anomalies but on the whole it is quite fair when you know the full criteria on how gradings were set and how it works going forward. 

[phillwhitewasmad 1,487]

3 hours ago, Ringitsneck said:

Whilst it’s about time they encouraged the kids into teams this scheme has some major flaws. The lad I help is wondering why he signed for his local club if he’s not going to ride for them because of the draft system? And if he doesn’t do as he’s told by the scheme  have you read the consequences ?

yes and lets use my lad as an example born and bred in scunthorpe and helped massively by the club and its owner, rode for berwick in the junior league and the team there who run the Juniors have been instrumental in his development ,and as i read it may not have the choice of going to either in his first season (if he makes it) because of the system set out . He could end up 249 miles from home with little choice in the matter. My attitude is if they BSPL are guaranteeing the spots as per the system set out then we have to suck it up . remember riders dont have to accept the scheme they can decline and make their own way through (some will ).

[Sings4Speedway 3,247]

10 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

yes and lets use my lad as an example born and bred in scunthorpe and helped massively by the club and its owner, rode for berwick in the junior league and the team there who run the Juniors have been instrumental in his development ,and as i read it may not have the choice of going to either in his first season (if he makes it) because of the system set out . He could end up 249 miles from home with little choice in the matter. My attitude is if they BSPL are guaranteeing the spots as per the system set out then we have to suck it up . remember riders dont have to accept the scheme they can decline and make their own way through (some will ).

So if im getting you correctly should a rider agree to go onto the rising star register they must accept a team place if offered to them regardless of where it is or face the consequences whatever they may be?

Obviously there might be some sense applied in some cases but only likely to financial such as not paying a rider 500 miles fuel money each home meeting. Would certainly be interesting reading to see the sanctions being held against the riders especially if you consider that two places per side will become the norm in the Champ in future. I can see the fun being sucked out of the sport very quickly for some riders being forced to clubs/tracks that they don't like very much.

[phillwhitewasmad 1,487]

as i read it there are no consequences you either accept a place on the scheme with the terms and conditions applied which means as i understand it protected places for british youth riders. or you dont accept it and have to take your chances with every other rider . as i understand it there are are no sanctions you can still ride just not in the protected scheme. i think it can work going forward just needs time to settle 2022 will be the telling year as its first full season under the regs as stated. bonus for is we wont have to go to Edinburgh 

[TotallyHonestJohn 3,078]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

It’ll be interesting to see what happens when/of say a rider really over achieves and scores highly.

Do they move into the main body of the side?
Do they stay at reserve?
Do they get regraded at the end of the season?
Do they end up no longer being a ‘rising star’?
Is the 5 year plan for the current crop of riders along with additions or is the 5 year plan for the teams meaning that riders could be removed from the system after say 1 or 2 years once they reach a certain level?

Or more importantly... Are we just going to be making it up as we go along?

 

1 hour ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

the list posted is the list sent out but it has been edited in all there are three pages to it and there is a peace missing from that page that is on here describing how it works. i agree there are one or two anomalies but on the whole it is quite fair when you know the full criteria on how gradings were set and how it works going forward. 

1 hour ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

yes and lets use my lad as an example born and bred in scunthorpe and helped massively by the club and its owner, rode for berwick in the junior league and the team there who run the Juniors have been instrumental in his development ,and as i read it may not have the choice of going to either in his first season (if he makes it) because of the system set out . He could end up 249 miles from home with little choice in the matter. My attitude is if they BSPL are guaranteeing the spots as per the system set out then we have to suck it up . remember riders dont have to accept the scheme they can decline and make their own way through (some will ).

Thing is for me the plan is supposed to last 5 years; has Vatcher got a conveyer belt system on the IOW churning out these young kids because when they put two rising stars into each side next year that will require approximately 36 rising stars each year for the next four years and as Najjer states they will (or should) finally fall off the end/or out of; the Rising Stars (RS) programme. Will we end up with two/four 12 year olds racing each other on 125's in protected heats by year 5... what's the guarantee of supply of these RS riders... suits a few clubs now but the circumstances will change for sure

So a club picks up a young 3* RS and he hits the ground running and after the second set of averages he ends up on a 4.5 average and two other (not RS) riders at the club end up with slightly lower 4 point averages then the RS will move into the main body of the team at say number 2; so the club will have a couple of possible choices I assume; which will be to keep things as they are; (as the build for the other 6 riders in the team is still around the 38 mark or possibly higher if another main body rider puts a point and a half on his average in the same period) so unless one of the new reserves has dropped from say a 6 to a 4 they could drop this guy and bring in another 5/6 point rider "Like for Like" to push the RS back into reserve or if there is no one available to bring in they could drop the RS and bring another 3* rider in "Like for Like" for this new one to drop back into reserve to push the more senior rider back into the main body... a minor injury to a RS rider will be fun? (wrist sprain and 4 weeks out) Do you bring in another guest RS rider to his rating so a 3* or less to fill in at No 2 (which has happened in the past when NL riders come into the main body of the team as RR) or can you bring in a guest at the 4.5 average and then there is everyone's favourite RR and effectively as the lowest rated rider rider at 3* who gets the rider replacement rides... would be the one above and three for the two reserves in normal circumstances but the 3* rider is in effect the lowest rated rider in the team supposedly (is that regardless of average and that brings in all sorts of contradictions?)… 

End of the season your 3* rider ends up with a 5.01 average does he move up one bracket to a 4* rider or your 2* rider ends up with a 4.01 average does move to a 3* or a 4* rating the following season. After three seasons and your RS rider moves to a low 5 average does he stay on the programme for another 2 years or is that is he's off the programme and fending for himself then his average takes a tumble year 4 and he drops to a 3 average can he re-enter the programme or is that it he hasn't made it "good night Biffa" its over... One young Newcastle rider ended up on an average around 5 due to reasonable home performances then got injured and came back to early which destroyed his confidence and he ended up on a 2 average by the end of the next season!!! what gives in this scenario? the comments on here will be "Oh they have dropped poor "Tom, Dick, Harry, Whoever" and what a rotten lot at "Club A ;B; C"; they are in doing that" some short memories across this sport for sure... the question is can they come down the star rating system as well as go up the ratings?

Letting this run for a season is fine as this year is a good opportunity to try something different and see what happens next year "going forward" as stated but its been tried before in the top league and didn't last the 3 years it was proposed for (and I can even remember now what that idea was called to bring on young British talent) and as much as I would like this to succeed I have severe doubts. This is a transitional year due to Covid and my preference would nave been to reduce the Team Build to 38 in the Top league and possibly as low as 25 in the Championship; let the averages work through the system and both leagues build to 42.5 next year with the 1.7 average conversion multiplier used between the leagues; the whole thing needs to reset; or possibly this year one big league or North and South leagues building to about 35 points and again get things reset from an even starting point 2022...

Looks like the "Claudio Ranieri Syndrome" has took a hold of the supporting cast of the BSPL... The Tinkermen...

Regards
THJ

Edited February 1, 2021 by TotallyHonestJohn
Spelling,

[enotian 562]

25 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

as i read it there are no consequences you either accept a place on the scheme with the terms and conditions applied which means as i understand it protected places for british youth riders. or you dont accept it and have to take your chances with every other rider . as i understand it there are are no sanctions you can still ride just not in the protected scheme. i think it can work going forward just needs time to settle 2022 will be the telling year as its first full season under the regs as stated. bonus for is we wont have to go to Edinburgh 

So like any other rider then.  You get offered a deal and either accept it or reject it. I guess all riders have preferred options but not all of them materialise.

[phillwhitewasmad 1,487]

3 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Thing is for me the plan is supposed to last 5 years; has Vatcher got a conveyer belt system on the IOW churning out these young kids because when they put two rising stars into each side next year that will require approximately 36 rising stars each year for the next four years and as Najjer states they will (or should) finally fall off the end/or out of; the Rising Stars (RS) programme. Will we end up with two/four 12 year olds racing each other on 125's in protected heats by year 5... what's the guarantee of supply of these RS riders... suits a few clubs now but the circumstances will change for sure

you only need enough riders to cover the championship so would depend on number of teams so for arguments sake 10 teams 20 riders the best of which will double up to the premiership. after that i assume some will stay as rising stars and others will either no longer fit the criteria or decide to no longer be part of it. so can see at least 10 being required the following year and so on. with the volume of riders on the list already and those coming through i do believe a 5 year plan is achievable but only time will tell.

[Fromafar 10,360]

4 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

you only need enough riders to cover the championship so would depend on number of teams so for arguments sake 10 teams 20 riders the best of which will double up to the premiership. after that i assume some will stay as rising stars and others will either no longer fit the criteria or decide to no longer be part of it. so can see at least 10 being required the following year and so on. with the volume of riders on the list already and those coming through i do believe a 5 year plan is achievable but only time will tell.

Out of interest what happens if the rising star fails to get to the next star level at the end of the season.Will he still be a rising star for 5 years if he fails to improve over the years or will he get “dumped”.

[Sings4Speedway 3,247]

9 minutes ago, enotian said:

So like any other rider then.  You get offered a deal and either accept it or reject it. I guess all riders have preferred options but not all of them materialise.

Except the riders in the scheme will have places in teams held open for them that currently are often filled up with non improving NL riders apart from those no improvers who have got in on the scheme! 

I hope it is limited to two leagues only as many on the scheme will desperately need the NL rides for confidence (if there is a NL left) and i hope those involved have deep enough pockets as running 2-3 bikes with 3-4 engines and all associated running gear that is required to compete in two leagues alongside van, time off work etc will push several to the limit but i hate the begging bowl messages mid season and have enough of it from established riders.

[Falcon1983 557]

say what you like about whoever is under what grading system but there are 58 riders that that clubs need to support as they are the future of British Speedway, enough riders there to fill over 8 complete sides.