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GavinCaney

1985 World Final

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16 minutes ago, chunky said:

While I'm not as old as you (sorry!), and my first World Final was 1969, the thought of, "my grandad speaks fondly of riders like Erik Gundersen" is a real kick in the nuts!!!

I first saw Erik ride 42 years ago. Still seems pretty recent.

When I first saw Erik ride, 42 years before then was pre-war...

Sobering thought, eh?

Funny but my mind sort of relates to time in that respect. When Hans last rode for the "Cheetahs" it was 29 years ago (1992) and only seems like yesterday...however in 29 years time I will be 90!

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42 minutes ago, chunky said:

 

I first saw Erik ride 42 years ago. Still seems pretty recent.

When I first saw Erik ride, 42 years before then was pre-war...

Sobering thought, eh?

I often make that comparison too. When something comes on telly that I remember etc., I think to myself what was that number of years before the event. It is quite frightening at times. 

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57 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Funny but my mind sort of relates to time in that respect. When Hans last rode for the "Cheetahs" it was 29 years ago (1992) and only seems like yesterday...however in 29 years time I will be 90!

 

30 minutes ago, norbold said:

I often make that comparison too. When something comes on telly that I remember etc., I think to myself what was that number of years before the event. It is quite frightening at times. 

I thought it was me, so that makes me feel better!

With regard to Steve's comment, I had a problem like that when I turned 30; ten years ago, I was a sprightly 20-year-old, and and ten years time, I'll be an ancient 40! Now I'm 58, I'm positively crapping myself...

It's not just speedway that ages me, but music too. When I was a teenager, the Beatles were "oldies" to me. Now, I think of OMD as recent... B)

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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Funny but my mind sort of relates to time in that respect. When Hans last rode for the "Cheetahs" it was 29 years ago (1992) and only seems like yesterday...however in 29 years time I will be 90!

Hans is one that screws me too. 29 years ago, but I still think of him as a modern rider. 29 years before that, and Harrfeldt and Nordin were only starting to ride for the Dons...

Edited by chunky
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38 minutes ago, chunky said:

 

 

It's not just speedway that ages me, but music too. When I was a teenager, the Beatles were "oldies" to me. Now, I think of OMD as recent... B)

Music is an interesting one. I was listening to one of my young teenage favourite songs yesterday - Runaway by Del Shannon. The song came out 60 years ago this year. 60 years before that was 1901!!!

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2 minutes ago, norbold said:

Music is an interesting one. I was listening to one of my young teenage favourite songs yesterday - Runaway by Del Shannon. The song came out 60 years ago this year. 60 years before that was 1901!!!

I work at a local bar a couple of times a week, and whenever things like Bohemian Rhapsody or Jean Genie come on the jukebox, I'm one of the only people in the bar that remembers it when it first came out!

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7 hours ago, steve roberts said:

They were riding a perfect line for a couple of laps and then Lance King decided to ride a tighter line allowing Erik a clear run where the dirt was. Again, it was something that Sam Ermolenko touched upon in his book.

Interesting. Not a theory I've heard before. I'd question whether it has much credibility. If King wanted to stay out of Erik's way, then he wouldn't have passed him on the first bend. I can't buy into the idea that it was fixed. It's a some fix if the script was for Moran to outgate Gundersen, King to pass him on the turn, team ride him out with Moran on the inside and King on the outside, then let him get past them both. I think that's a stretch. 

For me, there was a minor error on King's part and Gundersen took advantage with a brilliant bit of opportunism. I think it's one of THE great world final rides. Only Gundersen, Nielsen, Ermolenko and Niemi seemed to have the track properly weighed up that afternoon. 

Edited by falcace
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17 minutes ago, chunky said:

I work at a local bar a couple of times a week, and whenever things like Bohemian Rhapsody or Jean Genie come on the jukebox, I'm one of the only people in the bar that remembers it when it first came out!

:D

I was working behind a hotel bar in Edinburgh as a student in the 1990s and the band Mud came in after a gig. The lead singer (Les?) was chatting away and I told him that Tiger Feet was number 1 when I was born. I thought it was a nice thing to say, but he physically deflated! I suppose in his eyes, he was still a hip rock star. B)  

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17 minutes ago, falcace said:

:D

I was working behind a hotel bar in Edinburgh as a student in the 1990s and the band Mud came in after a gig. The lead singer (Les?) was chatting away and I told him that Tiger Feet was number 1 when I was born. I thought it was a nice thing to say, but he physically deflated! I suppose in his eyes, he was still a hip rock star. B)  

I think that when I see things like talent shows on the box, and even in sports: "You were my hero when I was growing up!" and, "As a kid, I always wanted to be like you!"

It's that people think that way, but boy, can they sting - and yes, I've had that experience too! American dart player Danny Baggish (who is playing in the PDC now) came up to me a few years ago, and said, "You probably don't remember me, but I was one of those kids you used to give free dart flights to!" :neutral:

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3 hours ago, falcace said:

Interesting. Not a theory I've heard before. I'd question whether it has much credibility. If King wanted to stay out of Erik's way, then he wouldn't have passed him on the first bend. I can't buy into the idea that it was fixed. It's a some fix if the script was for Moran to outgate Gundersen, King to pass him on the turn, team ride him out with Moran on the inside and King on the outside, then let him get past them both. I think that's a stretch. 

For me, there was a minor error on King's part and Gundersen took advantage with a brilliant bit of opportunism. I think it's one of THE great world final rides. Only Gundersen, Nielsen, Ermolenko and Niemi seemed to have the track properly weighed up that afternoon. 

To quote from Ermolenko's book

"...We were watching the race and Shawn Moran and Lance King were beating Erik Gundersen, then before you knew it, Erik pulled off a big swoop round the outside of them and took the lead and won the race. It was felt that King didn't try that hard  to prevent him from doing this as they used to be team-mates at  Cradley Heath"

An interesting observation all the same however it's a question I would have put to King given the opportunity even if only to dispel Ermolenko's comment in his book.

Edited by steve roberts

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15 hours ago, chunky said:

You wanna talk about "rushing"? Couldn't be worse than the night we spent at Watford Gap coming back from Belle Vue. By the time we got home, I had time to take a shower, and get back to the stadium for the coach to Eastbourne for the Inter-League 4TT!

Tell me about it. It was you that nicked the road sign, wasn't it!

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My own memory of Gundersen's pass was that Hans Neilsen had done a similar move in a previous race and Erik had tried the same move and it worked perfectly, just as it had for Hans. 

 

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Just had a look here: 1985 - Speedway Individual World Final - Bradford (Great Britain) - Erik Gundersen (Denmark) - YouTube

Hans Neilsen uses a similar line in heat 10 to pass Jan Andersson (36:30). I remember at the time I very much wanted Neilsen to win and when Erik passed King and Moran I got the hump because he was just copying Hans!

The Gundersen race is at 1:03:00. First of all, King passes Gundersen early in the race. Why would he do that if he was chucking the race for Erik to win? It looks to me like King moves in because he is trying to pass Moran and wants to clamp him down, which gives Erik a clear run round the outside.

Any idea that King threw the race looks like nonsense to me. I reckon Sam just got the hump because it gave him less chance of winning.

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48 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Just had a look here: 1985 - Speedway Individual World Final - Bradford (Great Britain) - Erik Gundersen (Denmark) - YouTube

Hans Neilsen uses a similar line in heat 10 to pass Jan Andersson (36:30). I remember at the time I very much wanted Neilsen to win and when Erik passed King and Moran I got the hump because he was just copying Hans!

The Gundersen race is at 1:03:00. First of all, King passes Gundersen early in the race. Why would he do that if he was chucking the race for Erik to win? It looks to me like King moves in because he is trying to pass Moran and wants to clamp him down, which gives Erik a clear run round the outside.

Any idea that King threw the race looks like nonsense to me. I reckon Sam just got the hump because it gave him less chance of winning.

If I was King I would feel aggrieved that Ermolenko went to print and I would have made a point of refuting the claim if there was nothing untoward however in an interview in "Backtrack" some years ago when it was put to him was he team-riding with Moran to try to aid Ermolenko he replied "No, I wasn't trying to do that. It was an individual meeting, so I was out there racing as an individual. It may have been different in Shawn's case, I don't know, but I was riding for myself"

Does seem odd that Ermolenko felt the need to make the comment though?

Edited by steve roberts

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11 hours ago, steve roberts said:

To quote from Ermolenko's book

"...We were watching the race and Shawn Moran and Lance King were beating Erik Gundersen, then before you knew it, Erik pulled off a big swoop round the outside of them and took the lead and won the race. It was felt that King didn't try that hard  to prevent him from doing this as they used to be team-mates at  Cradley Heath"

An interesting observation all the same however it's a question I would have put to King given the opportunity even if only to dispel Ermolenko's comment in his book.

Thanks Steve.

Hasn't changed my mind though. I think Ermolenko is hinting at something that's without merit there. As an add on, King was so put out on being dropped by Cradley after 1984 in favour of Erik (due to averages) that he missed the UK altogether...and never went back to Dudley Wood. I don't think he was out for doing Erik or Cradley any favours in 85.   

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