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GavinCaney

1985 World Final

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Very interesting that this has been brought up as never heard anyone say it in public before but never been able to get it out of my head that it was fixed. This was because at the time me & my Mum stood at Halifax with a guy quite well connected in Speedway and at the evening meeting against Belle Vue he told us that he was in the pits at Odsal and that Gundo had paid off Moran & King for that race.

I was only 12 at the time but it’s just one of those things that I remember like it was yesterday and that has always stuck in my mind.

Absolutely no idea if it’s true or not but every time I see the race or see someone praising Gundo, I always think back to what I was told!!!!! Very interesting 

 

Edited by Bradford Ace
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4 hours ago, cityrebel said:

Tell me about it. It was you that nicked the road sign, wasn't it!

It was Hickmott!

You realise that was 41 years ago? That was when Johnsy scored 16+1 at Hyde Rd, and beat PC three times...

Edited by chunky
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16 minutes ago, Bradford Ace said:

Very interesting that this has been brought up as never heard anyone say it in public before but never been able to get it out of my head that it was fixed. This was because at the time me & my Mum stood at Halifax with a guy quite well connected in Speedway and at the evening meeting against Belle Vue he told us that he was in the pits at Odsal and that Gundo had paid off Moran & King for that race.

I was only 12 at the time but it’s just one of those things that I remember like it was yesterday and that has always stuck in my mind.

Absolutely no idea if it’s true or not but every time I see the race or see someone praising Gundo, I always think back to what I was told!!!!! Very interesting 

 

Again, I just can't buy that. Regardless of whether some bloke on a terracing said it or not.

Too much happened in the race and too many risks were taken for it to be anything but legit. Plus Gundersen's fist pumping celebration at the race conclusion is not that of a man who knew the race was in his pocket already.

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3 hours ago, Grachan said:

Just had a look here: 1985 - Speedway Individual World Final - Bradford (Great Britain) - Erik Gundersen (Denmark) - YouTube

Hans Neilsen uses a similar line in heat 10 to pass Jan Andersson (36:30). I remember at the time I very much wanted Neilsen to win and when Erik passed King and Moran I got the hump because he was just copying Hans!

The Gundersen race is at 1:03:00. First of all, King passes Gundersen early in the race. Why would he do that if he was chucking the race for Erik to win? It looks to me like King moves in because he is trying to pass Moran and wants to clamp him down, which gives Erik a clear run round the outside.

Any idea that King threw the race looks like nonsense to me. I reckon Sam just got the hump because it gave him less chance of winning.

Thanks for the link, Grachan. It looks perfectly ok to me. It just looks like a great move by Gundersen  - and I think we should remember that Gundersen always figures in discussions about the greatest riders of all time and this sort of move is why.

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1 hour ago, Bradford Ace said:

Very interesting that this has been brought up as never heard anyone say it in public before but never been able to get it out of my head that it was fixed. This was because at the time me & my Mum stood at Halifax with a guy quite well connected in Speedway and at the evening meeting against Belle Vue he told us that he was in the pits at Odsal and that Gundo had paid off Moran & King for that race.

I was only 12 at the time but it’s just one of those things that I remember like it was yesterday and that has always stuck in my mind.

Absolutely no idea if it’s true or not but every time I see the race or see someone praising Gundo, I always think back to what I was told!!!!! Very interesting 

 

I'm not suggesting for one minute that this is the case here but I remember the speedway journalist John Chaplin once saying if you don't want your illusions spoilt keep your side of the fence. My uncle who was track photographer at Cowley during the seventies saw money change hands during a British Semi-Final at Leicester in 1974 (confirmed by John Berry incidently) in the pits...it's naive to think that it didn't happen in speedway circles.

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1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

I'm not suggesting for one minute that this is the case here but I remember the speedway journalist John Chaplin once saying if you don't want your illusions spoilt keep your side of the fence. My uncle who was track photographer at Cowley during the seventies saw money change hands during a British Semi-Final at Leicester in 1974 (confirmed by John Berry incidently) in the pits...it's naive to think that it didn't happen in speedway circles.

Yes of course. I've no doubt it went on a aplenty...

Aside from the obvious Penhall episode with his fellow yanks at the 1982 Overseas, there were plenty of questionable episodes. In the previous year's Overseas Final, the high flying Dave Jessup and Larry Ross flunked their last race beaten by the hitherto struggling team-mates Mike Lee and Ivan Mauger who finish 1st and 2nd to scrape through. It happened and when it did, it was pretty obvious.

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50 minutes ago, falcace said:

Yes of course. I've no doubt it went on a aplenty...

Aside from the obvious Penhall episode with his fellow yanks at the 1982 Overseas, there were plenty of questionable episodes. In the previous year's Overseas Final, the high flying Dave Jessup and Larry Ross flunked their last race beaten by the hitherto struggling team-mates Mike Lee and Ivan Mauger who finish 1st and 2nd to scrape through. It happened and when it did, it was pretty obvious.

I recall the occasion that both Nielsen and Gundersen were desperate not to cross the line first in one World Championship qualifier as it would've given them a less blessed draw in the next round. Ivan was another who blew one race on purpose to give him a better starting option when the numbers were pre-determined! Why it was decided that the starting positions were already known depending on your finishing order in the previous round beats me!

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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

I recall the occasion that both Nielsen and Gundersen were desperate not to cross the line first in one World Championship qualifier as it would've given them a less blessed draw in the next round. 

1988 Intercontinental Final in Vetlanda.

Gundersen let Ivarsson by in his last race to set up a run off for 2nd with Nielsen and Jonsson.

Winning the run off got you race number 9 in the final. Finishing second got number 1.

Coming off the last bend Nielsen slowed dramatically, Gundersen reacted and also slowed so that Nielsen just crossed the line first.

I thought I had seen this race on YouTube before but can't find it now...Heat 17 where Gundersen sets up the run off is there, but I can't find the run off :unsure:

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4 hours ago, chunky said:

It was Hickmott!

You realise that was 41 years ago? That was when Johnsy scored 16+1 at Hyde Rd, and beat PC three times...

It scares me to think about it!

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In interviews and documentaries, Gundersen comes across as being a thoroughly intelligent, decent and likeable person. 

The idea that he could have been involved in race fixing is too ridiculous for words.

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Hi guys, not posted on here for years. However i look at comments from time to time. Their is an interesting interview with Lance on youtube, from this year. He basically admits he wasn't exactly disappointed Erik won that race. Tbh it looks pretty obvious he clamps Shawn down on the inside going into the 4th bend.  Don't get me wrong Gunder was a terrific rider and deserved it on the day, but he definitely got some help. It's well documented Sam and Lance didn't get on. Anyway I'm off, see you all in another 10 years lol!!!!Well worth watching that interview, you might just change your opinions.

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3 hours ago, keepturningleft said:

In interviews and documentaries, Gundersen comes across as being a thoroughly intelligent, decent and likeable person. 

The idea that he could have been involved in race fixing is too ridiculous for words.

Apparently when Erik was team manager of the Danes during the 1991 Pairs Semi-Final Ermolenko (that man again) claimed that Erik lied to him when he said that the Danish pairing wouldn't throw the race (against the German Pair) thus denying the Yanks progress to the Final...which they then proceeded to do.

Edited by steve roberts

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10 hours ago, Bradford Ace said:

Very interesting that this has been brought up as never heard anyone say it in public before but never been able to get it out of my head that it was fixed. This was because at the time me & my Mum stood at Halifax with a guy quite well connected in Speedway and at the evening meeting against Belle Vue he told us that he was in the pits at Odsal and that Gundo had paid off Moran & King for that race.

I was only 12 at the time but it’s just one of those things that I remember like it was yesterday and that has always stuck in my mind.

Absolutely no idea if it’s true or not but every time I see the race or see someone praising Gundo, I always think back to what I was told!!!!! Very interesting 

 

Just watch the race. There is no way they are chucking that race.

Moran gets a flyer, nearly breaking tapes. Why do that if he's been paid off?

King goes round Gundersen on the second bend. Why?

Gundersen was a great starter. All they had to do was let him gate and Gundersen would have been gone.

Watch the race. Forget Gundersen and watch King and Moran. They are flat out racing each other.

If you met a guy who was in the pits and he said they were paid off he was probably told it by Sam Ermolenko!

Edited by Grachan
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13 hours ago, kaiser said:

Hi guys, not posted on here for years. However i look at comments from time to time. Their is an interesting interview with Lance on youtube, from this year. He basically admits he wasn't exactly disappointed Erik won that race. Tbh it looks pretty obvious he clamps Shawn down on the inside going into the 4th bend.  Don't get me wrong Gunder was a terrific rider and deserved it on the day, but he definitely got some help. It's well documented Sam and Lance didn't get on. Anyway I'm off, see you all in another 10 years lol!!!!Well worth watching that interview, you might just change your opinions.

Thanks for the heads up! I'll take a look. It may well be that he wasn't a big fan of Ermolenko. But that still doesn't mean the race was thrown. I just don't see any moment where King clamped down - he was never in front to do so. I don't see any moment where King or Moran held back either. They just made the mistake of not venturing out into the really grippy line that Gundersen found. 

Edited by falcace

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20 hours ago, falcace said:

Yes of course. I've no doubt it went on a aplenty...

Aside from the obvious Penhall episode with his fellow yanks at the 1982 Overseas, there were plenty of questionable episodes. In the previous year's Overseas Final, the high flying Dave Jessup and Larry Ross flunked their last race beaten by the hitherto struggling team-mates Mike Lee and Ivan Mauger who finish 1st and 2nd to scrape through. It happened and when it did, it was pretty obvious.

There's one with Ole Olsen around the same time, too, where you can literally see him waving a couple of Danes past on the last lap.

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