1985 World Final

[Bradford Ace 183]

I can’t remember if I felt like that when I saw the race at the World Final (was a long time ago!!) but when I was told about the “fixing” it was just something that I couldn’t get out of my head.

When watching the meeting back, there was a huge heavy dirt line on the outside that both Gundo & Hans used earlier in the meeting to make great passes and that was the place to be.

Look at the 2 stills here. In the first one, King is right on that line and Gundo is trapped in 3rd. In the 2nd still, King has moved way off that line and is side by side with Moran, leaving the big grip line to Gundo behind. As I said before, no idea if the allegation is true but IMO I feel this supports it.

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Bradford Ace

[fatface 2,549]

1 hour ago, Bradford Ace said:

I can’t remember if I felt like that when I saw the race at the World Final (was a long time ago!!) but when I was told about the “fixing” it was just something that I couldn’t get out of my head.

When watching the meeting back, there was a huge heavy dirt line on the outside that both Gundo & Hans used earlier in the meeting to make great passes and that was the place to be.

Look at the 2 stills here. In the first one, King is right on that line and Gundo is trapped in 3rd. In the 2nd still, King has moved way off that line and is side by side with Moran, leaving the big grip line to Gundo behind. As I said before, no idea if the allegation is true but IMO I feel this supports it.

 

 

 

Yep. Very familiar with how the race unfolded. Actually I would say that Gundersen's move started on the previous turn when he took the widest line and generated the speed to enable the overtake on the next turn. We could all do screen grabs of riders making mistakes in World Finals...there are hundreds of them. It's what separates the winners from the also-rans.

Why didn't Malcolm Simmons close the door on Peter Collins in 1976?

Why did Bruce Penhall leave a gap for Michael Lee in 1980?

Why didn't Kenny Carter clamp down on Bruce Penhall in 1982?

The riders that make mistakes don't win World Finals....and the riders that get it right do win World Finals. It really is that simple. And that's why Erik Gundersen is a three-times champion and Lance King and Shawn Moran are not. I just don't see anything amiss in this race at all...it's as authentic a race as you ever likely to see. Passing, repassing, a momentary mistake and a brilliantly executed killer move from an all-time great. Why would Gundersen risk his neck in the deep dirt if his two opponents were paid off? And why would they make it difficult by outgating and passing him? It just doesn't stack up. 

And if the best evidence is that some bloke on the terracing at Halifax said it....well, what I would say to that is that he wouldn't be the first bloke in Yorkshire to bluff and bluster on and pretend he knows more than he does about something. 

Furthermore, if Gundersen was the type to pay off or seek the help of others, why then did his long--time teammate Jan O Pedersen deny him a maximum and an outright win in their last heat at the 1988 World Final and force him into a run-off with Nielsen? That was ripe for collusion, but it didn't happen. So, let's not spend much more time questioning Gundersen's integrity, he was as genuine a winner as any of us could ever hope for in a world final.     

Edited April 13, 2021 by falcace

[Grachan 7,314]

King knew Moran was on his inside and was concentrating on Moran. Gundersen came from nowhere. It's as simple as that.

[waiheke1 4,295]

On 4/13/2021 at 5:26 AM, keepturningleft said:

In interviews and documentaries, Gundersen comes across as being a thoroughly intelligent, decent and likeable person. 

The idea that he could have been involved in race fixing is too ridiculous for words.

What about the 1982 intercontinental final when he and ole pulled over to let Bo Petersen past?

Of course Shaun was involved in THAT race in the 82 overseas final.

And I recall Sam letting Hancock through in an early 90s overseas final.

So, I'm not sure there is any rider you could state would never do it.

BUT I'm convinced nothing was amiss here. Why would Shaun throw it when a win (with Eric 3rd) would see him with a run off for 3rd? I think the myth about this race is thst Moran and King were team riding - i believe they were racing each other, and as others have said, King tried to clamp down on Shaun, wasn't quick enough and Eric came round the outside.

Not the only time he won a world final in 85 bombing round the outside...or are people going to say they heard in the Halifax pits that KC was paid off to let Eric past in the world pairs

[kaiser 3]

I've only recently just seen that race of Eriks in the 85 pairs. It's proper balls to the wall stuff, I remember John Berry mentioned it in his book. I think it's on youtube somewhere. Its definitely shows Erik wasn't just a traper like Hans lol!!!!

 

[steve roberts 9,242]

2 hours ago, kaiser said:

I've only recently just seen that race of Eriks in the 85 pairs. It's proper balls to the wall stuff, I remember John Berry mentioned it in his book. I think it's on youtube somewhere. Its definitely shows Erik wasn't just a traper like Hans lol!!!!

 

...give over! Hans was the overal master whether it be gating, passing or that long lost art of team riding. I place Hans in the top five of riders of those that I had the good fortune to see in all my years going to speedway.

Edited April 14, 2021 by steve roberts

[steve roberts 9,242]

5 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

What about the 1982 intercontinental final when he and ole pulled over to let Bo Petersen past?

Of course Shaun was involved in THAT race in the 82 overseas final.

And I recall Sam letting Hancock through in an early 90s overseas final.

So, I'm not sure there is any rider you could state would never do it.

BUT I'm convinced nothing was amiss here. Why would Shaun throw it when a win (with Eric 3rd) would see him with a run off for 3rd? I think the myth about this race is thst Moran and King were team riding - i believe they were racing each other, and as others have said, King tried to clamp down on Shaun, wasn't quick enough and Eric came round the outside.

Not the only time he won a world final in 85 bombing round the outside...or are people going to say they heard in the Halifax pits that KC was paid off to let Eric past in the world pairs

There was apparently numerous instances behind the scenes in speedway that the average fan, thankfully, was/is unaware of...Mitch Shirra tells some interesting stories!

[fatface 2,549]

6 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

What about the 1982 intercontinental final when he and ole pulled over to let Bo Petersen past?

Of course Shaun was involved in THAT race in the 82 overseas final.

And I recall Sam letting Hancock through in an early 90s overseas final.

So, I'm not sure there is any rider you could state would never do it.

BUT I'm convinced nothing was amiss here. Why would Shaun throw it when a win (with Eric 3rd) would see him with a run off for 3rd? I think the myth about this race is thst Moran and King were team riding - i believe they were racing each other, and as others have said, King tried to clamp down on Shaun, wasn't quick enough and Eric came round the outside.

Not the only time he won a world final in 85 bombing round the outside...or are people going to say they heard in the Halifax pits that KC was paid off to let Eric past in the world pairs

You know, I've had no great problem with some of the favours that occasionally went on.

I think Penhall took a pasting in 1982 because he was the sport's highest profile rider, it was so blatant and made a bad miscalculation by wheelie-ing at the back. In short, he took the p***. The other one with the Danes was a situation where as it stood on the last lap with PC miles in front, Olsen Gundersen and Petersen were all going to be eliminated. Olsen waved Petersen through and gave him a chance in the run-off.

Similarly in 1980, in Mike Lee's last ride he had John Davis and Chris Morton in his last heat to win the title. The Sunday People made a fuss if it in later years and even in the commentary Dave Lanning talks of them looking out for him. It certainly looked to me that Davis obligingly let him through on the last lap. But I wouldn't consider anything like this fixing...it's team mates helping each other when they have nothing to gain.

I'm sure there are other instances where international opponents were possibly paid off, but there is nothing in the King, Moran, Gundersen race that looks anything but genuine.  

[Chadster 221]

Famously, allegedly, Jack Biggs was asked for money so that his rivals would 'go easy' on him in his last race when he needed 1 point to win the world title. He didn't oblige and didn't get the point.. The Duke of Edinburgh was guest of honour at a big post-war meeting, saw some fairly obvious collusion between two team mates and made his disgust plain afterwards. Royalty have never attended a speedway meeting since.

[Split 177]

"White lining" was the way to win races back in days gone by (riders like Ron How had it down to a fine art) but superior machinery and improved different riding techniques have changed all that. Finding grip on the outside and riding round riders was a rare but exciting event in those days and this is simply an example of a world class rider making best use of the conditions.

[fatface 2,549]

1 hour ago, Chadster said:

Famously, allegedly, Jack Biggs was asked for money so that his rivals would 'go easy' on him in his last race when he needed 1 point to win the world title. He didn't oblige and didn't get the point.. The Duke of Edinburgh was guest of honour at a big post-war meeting, saw some fairly obvious collusion between two team mates and made his disgust plain afterwards. Royalty have never attended a speedway meeting since.

Yes, that's an odd one and doesn't reflect well on the culture at the time. I too have read about that there's the strong suggestion that Biggs' opponents in his last ride wanted to punish him for NOT bribing them! 

[norbold 7,098]

14 hours ago, falcace said:

Yes, that's an odd one and doesn't reflect well on the culture at the time. I too have read about that there's the strong suggestion that Biggs' opponents in his last ride wanted to punish him for NOT bribing them! 

I read in a book that you co-authored, falcace, that it has been said that Aub Lawson went to the other two riders (Split Waterman and Freddie Williams) in that fateful heat and asked them if Jack had ‘said anything’ to them, i.e. offered a small inducement for them to let him win They replied he had not. The story goes that when Biggs said nothing  to them, they decided to ‘fix’ him.

Biggs said later when this story began to circulate that he hadn’t ‘said anything’ to them because he was confident he would win – or at the very least get the third place he needed to become World Champion. He had been by far the fastest gater all evening and Lawson and Williams were having poor evenings – Lawson in particular as he was suffering from a hand injury. To him – and probably the whole crowd there that evening – it was unthinkable that he wouldn’t at least get third place.

So, even if they did decide to ‘fix’ him, it wasn’t easy to see how they would be able to manage it. The authors of the book go on to say, “Nerves seem a much more plausible explanation.” He had a long gap between his fourth and fifth rides and he just sat in the pits getting more and more nervous.

The book quotes Ken Taylor, a long time speedway fan who was there that evening, as saying, “It was nerves that beat him.” He said he had seen Biggs in the pits some years previously in the London Riders’ Championship Final when, again, he was in with a chance of winning and his hands were shaking so much, Ken was surprised that Biggs could even hold the bike, let alone race it.

It should also be remembered that Biggs came third in the run-off as well – again a race on the previous form of the evening he should have won. But his nerves were shot to pieces by then.

[Grachan 7,314]

13 minutes ago, norbold said:

I read in a book that you co-authored, falcace, that it has been said that Aub Lawson went to the other two riders (Split Waterman and Freddie Williams) in that fateful heat and asked them if Jack had ‘said anything’ to them, i.e. offered a small inducement for them to let him win They replied he had not. The story goes that when Biggs said nothing  to them, they decided to ‘fix’ him.

Biggs said later when this story began to circulate that he hadn’t ‘said anything’ to them because he was confident he would win – or at the very least get the third place he needed to become World Champion. He had been by far the fastest gater all evening and Lawson and Williams were having poor evenings – Lawson in particular as he was suffering from a hand injury. To him – and probably the whole crowd there that evening – it was unthinkable that he wouldn’t at least get third place.

So, even if they did decide to ‘fix’ him, it wasn’t easy to see how they would be able to manage it. The authors of the book go on to say, “Nerves seem a much more plausible explanation.” He had a long gap between his fourth and fifth rides and he just sat in the pits getting more and more nervous.

The book quotes Ken Taylor, a long time speedway fan who was there that evening, as saying, “It was nerves that beat him.” He said he had seen Biggs in the pits some years previously in the London Riders’ Championship Final when, again, he was in with a chance of winning and his hands were shaking so much, Ken was surprised that Biggs could even hold the bike, let alone race it.

It should also be remembered that Biggs came third in the run-off as well – again a race on the previous form of the evening he should have won. But his nerves were shot to pieces by then.

Reminds me a bit of Dave Jessup, who many people think would have won the 1978 World Championship but for an engine failure in his first ride.

When it came to the key race to finish in second place, though, he lost out twice, dropping a point to Gordon Kennett in his last heat and then losing a run-off for third against Scott Autrey. Those two races make me think that Jessup would never have won a world title even without engine failures.

[fatface 2,549]

16 minutes ago, norbold said:

I read in a book that you co-authored, falcace, that it has been said that Aub Lawson went to the other two riders (Split Waterman and Freddie Williams) in that fateful heat and asked them if Jack had ‘said anything’ to them, i.e. offered a small inducement for them to let him win They replied he had not. The story goes that when Biggs said nothing  to them, they decided to ‘fix’ him.

Biggs said later when this story began to circulate that he hadn’t ‘said anything’ to them because he was confident he would win – or at the very least get the third place he needed to become World Champion. He had been by far the fastest gater all evening and Lawson and Williams were having poor evenings – Lawson in particular as he was suffering from a hand injury. To him – and probably the whole crowd there that evening – it was unthinkable that he wouldn’t at least get third place.

So, even if they did decide to ‘fix’ him, it wasn’t easy to see how they would be able to manage it. The authors of the book go on to say, “Nerves seem a much more plausible explanation.” He had a long gap between his fourth and fifth rides and he just sat in the pits getting more and more nervous.

The book quotes Ken Taylor, a long time speedway fan who was there that evening, as saying, “It was nerves that beat him.” He said he had seen Biggs in the pits some years previously in the London Riders’ Championship Final when, again, he was in with a chance of winning and his hands were shaking so much, Ken was surprised that Biggs could even hold the bike, let alone race it.

It should also be remembered that Biggs came third in the run-off as well – again a race on the previous form of the evening he should have won. But his nerves were shot to pieces by then.

Ha! I must pick up a copy and refresh my memory :-)