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enotian

Greatest ever improvement?

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6 minutes ago, enotian said:

if I recall staying at reserve all season despite averaging seven in that amazing Eagles team.  Probably only getting three rides per meeting in the old thirteen heat format.  The start of a great conveyor belt.  Dugard, Standing, Barker, Norris. I think Dean went to Ipswich but can't recall if he ever made an impact in the top flight. I recall Darren Standing going straight through the first bend at Brough just as he was starting to progress with Stoke.

I saw a lot of Eastbourne during the seventies (when they were Oxford's 'sister' team) and early eighties and the English talent that came thru' Arlington was second to none in my opinion. It must have irked Bob Dugard when foreigners began to prolificate the scene and hence the situation that now exists.

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1 hour ago, enotian said:

2nd season?? Remember seeing him at Brough in his first season. Scary but quick. Was always going to be a massive talent. 

He did a few meetings at the tail end if 2008 in the NL and some individuals presumably when he turned 16 but his first full season was for Lynn in 2009 when he roughly doubled his average from 5 to 10.

Edited by Bagpuss
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1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

I saw a lot of Eastbourne during the seventies (when they were Oxford's 'sister' team) and early eighties and the English talent that came thru' Arlington was second to none in my opinion. It must have irked Bob Dugard when foreigners began to prolificate the scene and hence the situation that now exists.

I think there has to be a correlation.  Wasn't it around that time, mid 80's, when there was controversy about allowing British riders to drop down into the National League?  That's drop down not double down!  So the likes of Gordon Kennett, Dave Jessup and Les Collins could all join NL teams despite having been world finalists (podiums) not much earlier. Imagine that.

Going off thread, but it's why I've always said foreign riders should never drop below their assessed average for team building.  And that assessed average shouldn't ever be as low as four as it is now. 

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3 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

He did a few meetings at the tail end if 2008 in the NL and sone individuals presumably when he turned 16 but his first full season was for Lynn in 2009 when he roughly doubled his average from 5 to 10.

Assessed five???  That's just a technical improvement ;) He was probably a ten the first time he got on a bike, such a natural talent.

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2 minutes ago, enotian said:

Assessed five???  That's just a technical improvement ;) He was probably a ten the first time he got on a bike, such a natural talent.

I think it’s no coincidence that we did the treble that year :D 

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15 minutes ago, enotian said:

I think there has to be a correlation.  Wasn't it around that time, mid 80's, when there was controversy about allowing British riders to drop down into the National League?  That's drop down not double down!  So the likes of Gordon Kennett, Dave Jessup and Les Collins could all join NL teams despite having been world finalists (podiums) not much earlier. Imagine that.

Going off thread, but it's why I've always said foreign riders should never drop below their assessed average for team building.  And that assessed average shouldn't ever be as low as four as it is now. 

I recall when the "Rebels" re-located to White City John Dews was unable to drop down into the National League with Oxford because his average was deemed too high at 6.50!

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crazy how the sport, over the years, has tied itself in knots over averages to two decimal places when they can only ever been an approximation of actual ability.  Creating any amount of dysfunctional behaviour and decision making.

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15 minutes ago, enotian said:

crazy how the sport, over the years, has tied itself in knots over averages to two decimal places when they can only ever been an approximation of actual ability.  Creating any amount of dysfunctional behaviour and decision making.

I seem to recall that Dean Barker was one such example when Eastbourne first tried to introduce him to their line-up...ended up at Cradley that year I remember.

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I’m not sure about averages but I recall the much missed Lee Richardson massively improving over the course of a season or two from a nervous reserve to a real talent in the late 1990’s.

Further back in time, a certain Ivan Mauger seemed to do pretty well on his return to the UK in 1963 after learning his trade in Australia.

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27 minutes ago, prodons said:

I’m not sure about averages but I recall the much missed Lee Richardson massively improving over the course of a season or two from a nervous reserve to a real talent in the late 1990’s.

Further back in time, a certain Ivan Mauger seemed to do pretty well on his return to the UK in 1963 after learning his trade in Australia.

Yes, if I recall Lee was a much heralded youngster who struggled for a couple of seasons but was given time and probably went from #7 to heat leader in a season in the 2nd tier. Going on to be a GP rider.  An excellent example of the benefit of giving young riders time to develop.  I always assume if I rider isn't doing a Peter Collins, Michael Lee or Kenny Carter in their first season then they won't make the International stage but it's just not the case.

Of course Mauger himself.  Was only ever top man around Newcastle but by all accounts was out of his depth as a youngster at Wimbledon.  Not sure of the league configurations back then though.

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Jordan Palin started with the BV Cubs in 2019 at number 7, and was no 1 after the first green sheets were published. I think his first meeting was a 15 point Max.

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4 hours ago, E I Addio said:

Its difficult to tell how far a rider can go. Rob was a useful reserve at Lakeside butfor some reason suffered a loss of form / confidence so gave speedway a miss for a while, and concentrated on continental grass tracks. Jon Cook then got him back to Lakeside as a British 3-pointer which seemed to be a steal because his average was down due to previous loss of form. However the comeback never really worked, he never really got back in the groove and retired for good. I think he could have dropped down to the lower league and done ok but last time I spoke to him he was doing happy enough doing continental grass tracks and apparently making it pay so had no real desire to return to speedway.

The thing is Rob was never a full time speedway rider and always had another job laying gas pipes or something and its always hard to combine two jobs and still do well.  I suppose on grass tracks he can do his day job then focus on his racing at weekends.

If he was full time speedway I guess he could have been a useful top league second string or lower league heatleader but I wouldn't have thought international class, but who knows.

Think Rob was one of the lads who came into Speedway with plenty of Grass track experience so in the lower leagues looked to be very talented immediately then as he moved up the levels it became harder to impress. Very decent rider but not that extra little bit that makes them into international stars in my opinion.

Right little chav at 16 but now matured and been riding Flat track for a couple of years and a good lad to have around, wouldn't be surprised to see him in the top 3 of the British Championships over the next couple of years. Think he would get dispensation to ride a 600 if he returned to Speedway as he is carrying a fair bit of extra padding around these days :D

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3 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I recall when the "Rebels" re-located to White City John Dews was unable to drop down into the National League with Oxford because his average was deemed too high at 6.50!

Andy Grahame was the same.  He was forced out of the BL because they lowered the points limit, and not a single team could fit him in, yet his average was too high for him to drop down!

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4 hours ago, enotian said:

if I recall staying at reserve all season despite averaging seven in that amazing Eagles team.  Probably only getting three rides per meeting in the old thirteen heat format.  The start of a great conveyor belt.  Dugard, Standing, Barker, Norris. I think Dean went to Ipswich but can't recall if he ever made an impact in the top flight. I recall Darren Standing going straight through the first bend at Brough just as he was starting to progress with Stoke.

Dean standing was a excellent heat leader for Ipswich in the national league in 89 and 90 and I think he was reluctant to go into the top league when Ipswich went upon 91.  Ended up going to Stoke and had a torrid time before signing for Swindon and I think he retired. 
extremely stylish rider. Now living in Australia 

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Michael Lee maybe, who knows his stats? Ended up on 9.22 in 76 and 10.64 in 77 so Wikipedia tells me ....

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