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Wee Eck

Has British Speedway now reached the bottom?

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32 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said:

Jeez, I wonder if they’ll wish Jimmy Savile all the best ... one of our greatest DJ’s ....

You do sometimes wonder who’s in charge of their social media account and thought this was a good idea ? 

Actually and not saying it counter balances the awful things Jimmy Savile did, but he did raise a shed load of money for charity. In the case of Kenny Carter, I personally do not know why he did what he did, but I have always presumed he was pushed to some kind of limit, which many of us have experienced, but fortunately, the 'off switch' has activated just before something irreversible occurs. :( 

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9 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

Actually and not saying it counter balances the awful things Jimmy Savile did, but he did raise a shed load of money for charity. In the case of Kenny Carter, I personally do not know why he did what he did, but I have always presumed he was pushed to some kind of limit, which many of us have experienced, but fortunately, the 'off switch' has activated just before something irreversible occurs. :( 

I think the charity work was perhaps just a calculated necessary 'passport' to enable the awful things so is completely negated 

The 'off switch' is the difference between a 'normal' human being and a monster. I can't see anyway way to mitigate the actions

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2 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

I think the charity work was perhaps just a calculated necessary 'passport' to enable the awful things so is completely negated 

The 'off switch' is the difference between a 'normal' human being and a monster. I can't see anyway way to mitigate the actions

I think describing Kenny Carter as a monster, is a bit over the top in my opinion. We are talking about one tragic event not a series of diabolical events. We still talk about Billy Sanders talents on track, but sadly took his own life, which I understand was due to problems with his private life. Perhaps that event could have ended differently, if Billy had 'turned right' instead of left. 'There but for the grace of God'.

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39 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

I think describing Kenny Carter as a monster, is a bit over the top in my opinion. We are talking about one tragic event not a series of diabolical events. We still talk about Billy Sanders talents on track, but sadly took his own life, which I understand was due to problems with his private life. Perhaps that event could have ended differently, if Billy had 'turned right' instead of left. 'There but for the grace of God'.

In Sanders case could have ended differently if those around him had taken notice of signs that they saw prior to the events of April 23rd 1985. John Berry certainly mentions that there possibly were signs that Billy wasn't right . But also mentions Billy hid things well. Didn't he score a maximum in his last meeting? 

Both were great on a speedway bike,  both must have been in a dark place, but only one murdered his wife. Which far out weighs any "good" Carter did. 

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1 hour ago, Ray Stadia said:

I think describing Kenny Carter as a monster, is a bit over the top in my opinion. We are talking about one tragic event not a series of diabolical events. We still talk about Billy Sanders talents on track, but sadly took his own life, which I understand was due to problems with his private life. Perhaps that event could have ended differently, if Billy had 'turned right' instead of left. 'There but for the grace of God'.

No comparison IMO

Thats my exact point - he didn't take that turn

Sadly the route Billy did take was equally tragic but is one that has sympathy and sorrow attached rather than the contempt and condemnation of Carter

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13 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

No comparison IMO

Thats my exact point - he didn't take that turn

Sadly the route Billy did take was equally tragic but is one that has sympathy and sorrow attached rather than the contempt and condemnation of Carter

Some people don't have sympathy with people who take their own life, however, I do sympathise. A lot of people had contempt towards Kenny Carter before his death and what he did. Therefore, there is no reason why that contempt shouldn't continue into his death. Billy was thought of, by many, in a different way to Kenny Carter, when they were both alive. As for the condemnation of what Kenny Carter did, absolutely it should be condemned. What drove him to such a drastic action, as I said earlier, I don't know, I seem to recall it was a domestic incident and something in the back of my mind recalls Pam may have been threatening to leave and take the children. Whatever, in my opinion it's more complicated than 'Kenny Carter is a monster, end of'.    

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56 minutes ago, falcace said:

As much as people like to retreat to the extremes, things are rarely black and white. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

Kenny Carter lost the plot. I think we can all agree that. What he did was horrific and unimaginable. Even in his crazed state of mind, he knew that and took his own life. Tony MacDonald's excellent book "Tragedy" gives a fine insight into what led to his mental deterioration and the traumatic childhood that preceded it. Nothing could ever excuse what he did, but there are good reasons why he wasn't of sound mind.

He was also a brilliant speedway rider. Unless you were a big follower of the sport in the early 1980s, it is difficult to understand just how much of a part he played in the scene around that time. He was genuine box office, the rider fans of every other club loved to hate. He was the go-to speedway rider in the national media, on breakfast TV, national newspapers, Question of Sport, teenage magazines. In pure speedway terms, there has been no-one like him since.

Try articulating that in a tweet.

It will always been a minefield discussing his life and legacy, ever likely to offend some. No-one would suggest there should be a statue. But that doesn't mean he should be airbrushed from history, he was too significant of a figure to be perpetually ignored.

I agree with much of what you say. He certainly was box office but as much for his whining and moaning as his on track performances, which were legendary. 
His achievements were substantial, twice BLRC winner, twice British Champion, World Pairs Champion and all by the time he was 25. But away tracks booed him because they bored of his histrionics.

Remembering and acknowledging his performances is a given. Still referring to him as “#kingkenny” is not and I’m pleased the tweet has now been removed.

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19 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

I agree with much of what you say. He certainly was box office but as much for his whining and moaning as his on track performances, which were legendary. 
His achievements were substantial, twice BLRC winner, twice British Champion, World Pairs Champion and all by the time he was 25. But away tracks booed him because they bored of his histrionics.

Remembering and acknowledging his performances is a given. Still referring to him as “#kingkenny” is not and I’m pleased the tweet has now been removed.

Away tracks booed anyone who was brilliant and not theirs.

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16 minutes ago, foamfence said:

Away tracks booed anyone who was brilliant and not theirs.

He was booed at Sheffield because he rode for Halifax, most Halifax and Belle Vue riders were booed, the possible exception being Peter Collins

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40 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

He was booed at Sheffield because he rode for Halifax, most Halifax and Belle Vue riders were booed, the possible exception being Peter Collins

Away Promoters definitely wouldn't boo PC either...

He would stick a good few extra hundred on the gate wherever he went...

As for the birthday remembrance for Carter, I can only presume it was done by someone who is less than knowledgeable about the sport but found themselves "Super, super excited" to find out it would have been his 60th birthday....:rolleyes:

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45 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

He was booed at Sheffield because he rode for Halifax, most Halifax and Belle Vue riders were booed, the possible exception being Peter Collins

Booing is now frowned upon by the woke presenters and announcers up and down the country. There is one particular track where you are actually actively encouraged to applaud the away riders, which gets a lukewarm response by and large, especially when they have just stuffed in a 5-1.

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1 minute ago, TheWatcher said:

Booing is now frowned upon by the woke presenters and announcers up and down the country. There is one particular track where you are actually actively encouraged to applaud the away riders, which gets a lukewarm response by and large, especially when they have just stuffed in a 5-1.

It's because it doesn't matter who wins, and that taking part and doing your best is what counts...

And all those youngsters  in the audience will understand this..

All six of them...:D

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It still amazes me that with all the mental health awareness these days that people still are so militant in thier dislike for Carter. I choose to remember my favorite speedway rider as a child.

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