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Tigers v Aces. 01/07

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Can’t believe all the sniping from the bed wetters on here about guests. It’s an evil necessity for the sport as every true speedway fan knows. Every club has benefited with a horses for corses policy from it in the past. James Greaves always threw a sicky when he was supposed to be riding at sheffield and his team always scored double figures from the guests. We can’t afford to have squads so what other way is there ? At the beginning of the season the rising star list came out. I don’t think Bates should be on it and didn’t want him but he was and we selected him. In the 4 star group were Bacon Bickley Brennan Greaves Mountain Rowe Shanes Ipswich decided to go with Kemp as the rising star and Rowe at reserve. Last night we selected a 4 star rider from the list. Personally I think each team should pick 2 rising stars at 6and 7. Peterborough have a massive advantage at reserve and look well set up. As for Rowe costing Ipswich a place in the top 4 while riding for us when there’s half the season to go ????  So Ipswich have lost 3 at home so that’s 9 points dropped but it’s Rowes fault for guesting for us and earning himself a few quid. Hope you enjoy booing the lad next home game. Good young British prospect who I wouldn’t mind riding for us. 

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On 7/1/2021 at 1:33 PM, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Can't argue with that but at least the replacement has similar or lower average

In this case its 3 points higher on true form but masked by the RS grading system

I'm thinking that perhaps Ioswich should replace Anders with a new signing up to his 5.49 average and then replace Drew with Anders as the RS

Can't see anything in the rules to prevent that....

Plymouth have done exactly that with Ruddick and Bowtell in their new declaration today.

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But that would mean that Anders has to rider for Rising Star money and he chose to be included in the 1-6 and negotiate his own deal (which he is fully entitled to do).

Personally i think for the PL RS guests should only come from those not attached to other PL (be that RS position or otherwise) and CL RS guests should come from those on the list but not currently attached to a CL or PL team. 

The system was "intended" cough cough to offer opportunities for those making their way in the sport to show what they could do at a higher level not just to create a closed shop at different tiers. 

To clarify this is nothing against Anders he took the booking because he could, the issue lies with the rules that allows him to do so.

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19 hours ago, Charlieboy said:

Good close meeting. Some good racing 2 nd half of meeting especially Kyle howarth  and Anders Rowe twice. Great to see Rowe and Brennan having a great tussle. We need to replace Sedgeman and Wright sooner rather than later. Bachelor 2 good rides 2 poor efforts   Holder top class Ellis good meeting   Belle vue deserved their point for their efforts. Thank you to Anders Rowe excellent effort from a guest. Your welcome anytime  

josh pickering is there for the taking he would be a good swop for sedgeman.

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2 hours ago, Charlieboy said:

Can’t believe all the sniping from the bed wetters on here about guests. It’s an evil necessity for the sport as every true speedway fan knows. Every club has benefited with a horses for corses policy from it in the past. James Greaves always threw a sicky when he was supposed to be riding at sheffield and his team always scored double figures from the guests. We can’t afford to have squads so what other way is there ? At the beginning of the season the rising star list came out. I don’t think Bates should be on it and didn’t want him but he was and we selected him. In the 4 star group were Bacon Bickley Brennan Greaves Mountain Rowe Shanes Ipswich decided to go with Kemp as the rising star and Rowe at reserve. Last night we selected a 4 star rider from the list. Personally I think each team should pick 2 rising stars at 6and 7. Peterborough have a massive advantage at reserve and look well set up. As for Rowe costing Ipswich a place in the top 4 while riding for us when there’s half the season to go ????  So Ipswich have lost 3 at home so that’s 9 points dropped but it’s Rowes fault for guesting for us and earning himself a few quid. Hope you enjoy booing the lad next home game. Good young British prospect who I wouldn’t mind riding for us. 

Last night with Anders Rowe being there to represent Sheffield it left the meeting devoid of credibility when aligned with the sport being a supposed professional team sport..

However, on the other hand....

Last night with Anders Rowe being there to represent Sheffield it certainly added much to the overall entertainment value on offer...

Personally I will always believe that a truly fit for purpose RR facility would do away with guests completely, (never more so than now given the closeness in rider capability from 1 to 5 in particular), however as that is seemingly beyond the wit of man to deliver then they will be forever here to stay...

Which obviously means the leagues will never have any value in winning them, but at least each meeting should stay at least competitive and watchable....

Unfortunately though the sport can't have it both ways...

No one  can ever complain about a lack of major sponsorship when that company/those companies will be associated with something 'pretty much contrived'....

And I can't think of one major company that would choose to back something ran that way....

14 riders of a decent level can still deliver a good nights entertainment regardless of who 'wins'....

Which is ultimately what each track should be trying to achieve..

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RR is ok unless you get another injury on the night then uour down to 5. We had it at Glasgow a few years back and won surprisingly but it’s far from ideal. No body runs a number 8 now so it puts more pressure on the other riders and machines. We’re stuck with guests I think for the foreseeable. Last night was a very good meeting and people who didn’t go are commenting on it just to have a snipe. Speedway is speedway and if you don’t agree with the rules and it upsets you that much people don’t have to go. I am just glad to be watching speedway this year after the 18 months we’ve just had but some people just like to bitch for the sake of it. The Bates and Peter Mole have done a cracking job since taking over and if it wasn’t for them I think we would be another track short. 
 

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5 minutes ago, Charlieboy said:

Speedway is speedway and if you don’t agree with the rules and it upsets you that much people don’t have to go.
 

Which is exactly why it's dying on its ar$e....

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26 minutes ago, Charlieboy said:

Definitely but its been happening for years not just recently that’s why it’s in a state 

In the 'days of yore'..

Number one riders in a 13 heat match would run a minimum 9 point average with the top ten running 10 and 11 plus...

Often meaning (particularly away from home) the likes of Mauger, Olsen Collins, et al would score 13 to 15 a night (with a TAC sub 'gimme' against a second string and reserve included)..

And every team had a 'proper No1...

As you only needed to score 39 to get s draw it meant that the "Number Ones" were vital and 100% integral to the teams success, with, even on a bad night, a double figure score of just 10 was often more than 25% of a teams' total...

Meaning that if they were missing then, so fundamental were they, that a replacement of a similar standard was needed..

Now teams have seven point men at No1, with five point men as second strings...

If ever Speedway (in the UK) was going to dispense with the guest system (and with it remember, it can never hope to succeed), it should have been now, given the closeness in standard of the riders in each team..

Last week for example, Ipswich at Sheffield should have been allowed to have Cook and King take all Crumps rides up to a max seven each (if that was what the manager wanted)..

Meaning the meeting (and competition) kept its credibility, the Ipswich riders (not non Ipswich riders), got to earn more money, and the team ethos and spirit was protected..

Not to mention the guest themselves don't get accused of trying too hard which penalises his own team or throwing the meeting to protect his own team... 

Imagine if the sport did get major coverage explaining either of those scenarios post meeting to a watching audience...?:(

 

Edited by mikebv
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2 hours ago, mikebv said:

 

Personally I will always believe that a truly fit for purpose RR facility would do away with guests completely, (never more so than now given the closeness in rider capability from 1 to 5 in particular), however as that is seemingly beyond the wit of man to deliver then they will be forever here to stay...

 

How do run RR for a reserve?

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It’s sad that a topic about a meeting which was entertaining and seemingly accepted to be a “good” meeting, has to descend into the usual our sport is crap debate… maybe that’s why it’s on its arse :neutral:

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50 minutes ago, mikebv said:

In the 'days of yore'..

Number one riders in a 13 heat match would run a minimum 9 point average with the top ten running 10 and 11 plus...

Often meaning (particularly away from home) the likes of Mauger, Olsen Collins, et al would score 13 to 15 a night (with a TAC sub 'gimme' against a second string and reserve included)..

And every team had a 'proper No1...

As you only needed to score 39 to get s draw it meant that the "Number Ones" were vital and 100% integral to the teams success, with, even on a bad night, a double figure score of just 10 was often more than 25% of a teams' total...

Meaning that if they were missing then, so fundamental were they, that a replacement of a similar standard was needed..

Now teams have seven point men at No1, with five point men as second strings...

If ever Speedway (in the UK) was going to dispense with the guest system (and with it remember, it can never hope to succeed), it should have been now, given the closeness in standard of the riders in each team..

Last week for example, Ipswich at Sheffield should have been allowed to have Cook and King take all Crumps rides up to a max seven each (if that was what the manager wanted)..

Meaning the meeting (and competition) kept its credibility, the Ipswich riders (not non Ipswich riders), got to earn more money, and the team ethos and spirit was protected..

Not to mention the guest themselves don't get accused of trying too hard which penalises his own team or throwing the meeting to protect his own team... 

Imagine if the sport did get major coverage explaining either of those scenarios post meeting to a watching audience...?:(

 

Yes I understand your point but it depends how good your number one is. I would hate to cover jack holders rides with a below par bachelor etc where as crump is more on a par with other Ipswich riders. As I’ve said previously we have lost meetings when having guests ( Sedgeman) springs to mind when he couldn’t be arsed and we have won meetings also with guests but I bet we’ve had more bad than good guests in my lifetime. I think we have more guests now than I can remember from the 60s and 70s

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3 minutes ago, Cue Ball said:

It’s sad that a topic about a meeting which was entertaining and seemingly accepted to be a “good” meeting, has to descend into the usual our sport is crap debate… maybe that’s why it’s on its arse :neutral:

Yes it was a very good entertaining meeting but it makes me laugh when people who didn’t attend try to make out we won because we used their rider ? Guests are the norm and every team is affected by it 

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32 minutes ago, Charlieboy said:

Yes it was a very good entertaining meeting but it makes me laugh when people who didn’t attend try to make out we won because we used their rider ? Guests are the norm and every team is affected by it 

Because you did!

Rowe scored more points in this meeting than Bates got in his last 3 matches combined and you won by 2 points

What difference does whether someone attended make? It doesn't change the scenario or the points scored or the fact that the whole situation is a basket case

Your reaction sums up the fingers in the ears and shout la la la attitude to any constructive debate that suggests the sport should attempt to drag itself back up to some level of credibility

With too many so long as their team benefits then it's a case of let's sweep it under the carpet and there's nothing to see here let's move on

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Not a case of fingers in ears or attending meetings mate. Get real speedway is on the decline because all the promoters are in it for themselves. The 70s and 80s are not coming back  it is what it is. Look at the stadiums look at the age of the people attending  the sport is on its arse and will get no better. Open your eyes to the results  Ipswich lost 3 at home thats 9 points your not getting. Anders Rowe helped us get 3 points last night and your blaming the poor lad for Ipswich not making the play offs ??? Look at the world it’s riddled with covid and your worried about a guest reserve. Jesus get real !!!!!!!!!

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