Fromafar 10,361 Posted June 28, 2021 15 minutes ago, Gambo said: I thought the concern was regarding the Cubs fixtures attendances? With the points money figures in NDL being discussed elsewhere are true,there won’t be any tracks making money from NDL attendances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,011 Posted June 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, Gambo said: I thought the concern was regarding the Cubs fixtures attendances? It was but they also mentioned concern about the ticket sales for the Redcar match in the same press release Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted June 28, 2021 30 minutes ago, Fromafar said: With the points money figures in NDL being discussed elsewhere are true,there won’t be any tracks making money from NDL attendances. It can be done providing the points monies don't get away from clubs again. But £15 on the gate (too steep but its happening), circa 600 crowd = £9k. £25 per point average across a team, decent team getting 50 points home and away = £2.5k. That leaves £6500 of leftovers. Yes there is then travelling costs, insurances, rent, medical etc but there is still a little meat left on the bone at those figures. The prime juggling act is how to get gate costs down / attendance up to balance each other out then the atmosphere is better etc. Get the points money down to £20 per point (and there are plenty of NL riders who would happily rider for that) and sustainability can occur. Sadly it only takes one or two clubs to buckle and throw silly money at riders and the whole thing collapses again. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edmon 166 Posted June 28, 2021 They were supposed to be going back to original ethos of the league (BL Div3 - 1994). If that was the case riders were not paid and only got travel money unless they rode for Berwick and Mildenhall. Remember Geoff Powell asking me what we were paying at Linlithgow and that he was happy to be paid the same as everyone else. I told him - nothing - and he said that was ok by him if all were the same. He eventually went to Mildenhall who were paying riders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,361 Posted June 28, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: It can be done providing the points monies don't get away from clubs again. But £15 on the gate (too steep but its happening), circa 600 crowd = £9k. £25 per point average across a team, decent team getting 50 points home and away = £2.5k. That leaves £6500 of leftovers. Yes there is then travelling costs, insurances, rent, medical etc but there is still a little meat left on the bone at those figures. The prime juggling act is how to get gate costs down / attendance up to balance each other out then the atmosphere is better etc. Get the points money down to £20 per point (and there are plenty of NL riders who would happily rider for that) and sustainability can occur. Sadly it only takes one or two clubs to buckle and throw silly money at riders and the whole thing collapses again. How many tracks will get circa 600 though.250 would be more realistic on the whole I would imagine.Certainly the Northern tracks would bite your hand off for 250 IMO. Edited June 28, 2021 by Fromafar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted June 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Fromafar said: How many tracks will get circa 600 though.250 would be more realistic on the whole I would imagine.Certainly the Northern tracks would bite your hand off for 250 IMO. If the NL was running at crowds of 250 the sport would have been dead long ago. Stoke and Kings Lynn were operating at those numbers at the end but Kent ran 700+ most weeks, Mildenhall always had good crowds even IOW out of summer holidays would beat that figure. The NL is far better supported than you give credit. Yes i accept that the double upping teams can struggle to generate interest but you would be surprised how many would convert for £10 speedway and why many of the top flight clubs want to keep the NL down. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,361 Posted June 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: If the NL was running at crowds of 250 the sport would have been dead long ago. Stoke and Kings Lynn were operating at those numbers at the end but Kent ran 700+ most weeks, Mildenhall always had good crowds even IOW out of summer holidays would beat that figure. The NL is far better supported than you give credit. Yes i accept that the double upping teams can struggle to generate interest but you would be surprised how many would convert for £10 speedway and why many of the top flight clubs want to keep the NL down. Fair enough in the past ,there is only 1 Team not doubling up in the present NDL though ,will the others be viable ? Cant see it surviving in present form next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted June 28, 2021 26 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Fair enough in the past ,there is only 1 Team not doubling up in the present NDL though ,will the others be viable ? Cant see it surviving in present form next year. Can't argue with that, although i wouldn't limit it to just the NDL. The league has served and saved several teams over the years and could well be the case again in the near future. Unfortunately sanctions imposed upon the league to enable the doubling up are also contributing to its destruction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,361 Posted June 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: Can't argue with that, although i wouldn't limit it to just the NDL. The league has served and saved several teams over the years and could well be the case again in the near future. Unfortunately sanctions imposed upon the league to enable the doubling up are also contributing to its destruction. Think majority of fans would have liked to have seen 1 big league,using young British talent to fill all reserve places.It would have weakened the product but might have raised the standard again in future. Look at Ipswich v Wolves it was not much better than a Championship line up in both Teams. British Speedway is just giving mediocre riders a chance to maximise their earnings to the decrement of the sport in UK.IMO 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted June 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Think majority of fans would have liked to have seen 1 big league,using young British talent to fill all reserve places.It would have weakened the product but might have raised the standard again in future. Would disagree with that as I don't think there is a majority for 1 big league and think that would be the final death knell for the sport... Not that the sport isn't already in terminal decline... Regards THJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,361 Posted June 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Would disagree with that as I don't think there is a majority for 1 big league and think that would be the final death knell for the sport... Not that the sport isn't already in terminal decline... Regards THJ There may not be majority of Promoters wanting I league,not so sure about fans,most of them have voted with their feet in recent years with the decline in the product as a Professional Sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted June 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Fromafar said: There may not be majority of Promoters wanting I league,not so sure about fans,most of them have voted with their feet in recent years with the decline in the product as a Professional Sport. Don't disagree with that comment but one big league isn't the panacea for Speedway at this juncture... and many fans don't want to see it that way... It will need about 4 more teams to go pop to push the agenda on for one big league because doubling up is what is sustaining riders... If it goes to one big league the sport will stop being a proffesional occupation for many riders and many will throw their hand in... and rider shortage is an issue now... If they do go down that route you may see the rise of clubs in the NDL... that's if the BSPL haven't destroyed the NDL as a competition... Regards THJ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,011 Posted June 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Fromafar said: Think majority of fans would have liked to have seen 1 big league,using young British talent to fill all reserve places.It would have weakened the product but might have raised the standard again in future. Look at Ipswich v Wolves it was not much better than a Championship line up in both Teams. British Speedway is just giving mediocre riders a chance to maximise their earnings to the decrement of the sport in UK.IMO Pretty sure there's not enough riders for 1BL, unless you went to 5 man teams. Maybe a more sensible solution would be 2 regional leagues, riders could maybe still double up and fans maybe encouraged to travel to away matches more Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrow Boy 2 172 Posted June 29, 2021 On 6/27/2021 at 8:43 PM, Justgotmecpc said: 6 days earlier at Newcastle we deserved the points as proctor Morris & Douglas let Leicester down as they didn't fancy attacking the track & I was well impressed with the Thompson twins but not surprised after seeing them numerous times at Scunthorpe in amateurs Surely the main problem was Ty Proctor not scoring. One point would have been enough for Leicester to have got a losing bonus point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,273 Posted June 29, 2021 9 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Don't disagree with that comment but one big league isn't the panacea for Speedway at this juncture... and many fans don't want to see it that way... It will need about 4 more teams to go pop to push the agenda on for one big league because doubling up is what is sustaining riders... If it goes to one big league the sport will stop being a proffesional occupation for many riders and many will throw their hand in... and rider shortage is an issue now... If they do go down that route you may see the rise of clubs in the NDL... that's if the BSPL haven't destroyed the NDL as a competition... Regards THJ The affordable level of the sport in this country is semi pro... Teams in the top league should pay out no more than an average of £100 a point across the team meaning £12k needed per home meeting to pay VAT and riders for one home meeting, and one away at a 90 point average.. Meaning £4.5k a night salary target to be divided up amongst the riders when agreeing individual points money contracts.. £16 admission and one thousand fans gets you £16k, to pay for a 'Championship Plus' level. (Not far from what we have now in the top league).. The second tier should be a "Championship Lite' league were an average £50 a point across the team is paid meaning £6k per home meeting needed to pay for VAT and riders.. £13 admission and 700 fans gets £9100 A £2.25k a night salary target to be divided up amongst the riders when agreeing points money contracts. The third tier shouldn't be much more than expenses paid.. Entry level motorsport is very much "pay to play" for most, with prize money often generated by their entry fees, so there really shouldnt be any more than an average of £20 a point paid out to anyone at that level.. 90 points for both home and away matches at £20 means £2160 to pay riders and VAT. At £10 admission a crowd of 400 would bring in £4k... I dont think the promoters realise just how little those of us who still follow the sport care about who wins their championships give the ridiculous operating model used and how they allow such manipulation, yet they pay out fortunes to try and win them, expecting riders to pay even more ridiculous amounts to get the best kit available.. Kit that also gets used (and subsidised by promoters by the way), to assist their own individual ambitions.. Let riders DU as much as they want to but only pay out a standard amount per team per night.. The bottom line is not many fans care who wins titles, so stop trying to out do each other to win something which is not far from irrelevant, and work together for collective success, which for many could simply be survival... One thing for sure is that closures within any industry can never be seen as a resounding success of its overall operating model and business plan.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
