Jump to content
British Speedway Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Guest compost

Plymouth - Pennycross, track records

Recommended Posts

Guest compost

Need a bit of help with this one.

Before they withdrew from the NL in the '50s I've got a record time of 71secs set on 3/9/53 by Goog Hoskin.

That time was then beaten after they re-opened on the 15/5/59 by Peter Craven with 70.6

I've next got a new track record set on the 21/7/61 by Jack Scott with a time of 72 (which obviously is slower than Peter's) - was this a PL record maybe ?

Next we've got a TR of 84secs set on re-opening, again, on the 31/5/68 by Phil Woodcock (so are we talking BL D2 only record here ?)

This is fine and it looks like we end the 1968 season with a fastest time of 79.6 (set 5/7/68 twice)

However, 1969 has a TR set on 9/5/69 of 80.2 (which is listed as 'equalling').

The time then drops logically until closure in 1970.

So any ideas (BL65 ?) ?

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, compost said:

Need a bit of help with this one.

Before they withdrew from the NL in the '50s I've got a record time of 71secs set on 3/9/53 by Goog Hoskin.

That time was then beaten after they re-opened on the 15/5/59 by Peter Craven with 70.6

I've next got a new track record set on the 21/7/61 by Jack Scott with a time of 72 (which obviously is slower than Peter's) - was this a PL record maybe ?

Next we've got a TR of 84secs set on re-opening, again, on the 31/5/68 by Phil Woodcock (so are we talking BL D2 only record here ?)

This is fine and it looks like we end the 1968 season with a fastest time of 79.6 (set 5/7/68 twice)

However, 1969 has a TR set on 9/5/69 of 80.2 (which is listed as 'equalling').

The track length was 413 yards when the record of 71.0 was set by Goog Hoskin.  On reopening in 1959 a lot of track work had been carried out, with the track length becoming 417 yards and a new record was established in heat 1 on 27th March (73.6 by Les McGillivray), lowered twice in the same meeting to 72.0 by Jack Unstead. Ray Cresp set a new record of 71.4 in heat 1 on 30th April 1959 (confirmed in the programme for the meeting in which Craven recorded 70.6).

At the commencement of the Provincial League 1961 season the track length was stated in the programme to have become 413 yards once more.  Plymouth programmes stated that 'the fastest time' (it does not say 'track record') was 72.4 by Jack Scott on 7th April 1961 (although Speedway Researcher shows this as 73.4).   This fastest time was printed in each programme from 14th April 1961 to 21st July 1961.  The programme for 27th July 1961 shows a 'new track record' of 72.0 by Jack Scott  on 21st July.  As this time was slower than Hoskin's time for 413 yards then it is either a new record because (a) the track was now perhaps slightly different in shape to when it was previously that length, (b) it was a new record because it was a different size to when the Craven record as set, or (c) it was a Provincial League track record - I have seen no explanation. 

The programme for the reopening meeting on 24th May 1968 (postponed and run on 31st May) stated that the track length was 400 yards, hence a new track record was established.  For 1969, the programmes showed the track length to have become 413 yards for the third time!  Details of record times shown in the programme at the start of the season were 'Track Record 72.0 by Jack Scott on 27th July 1961; Fastest Division II Time 79.6 by Eric Broadbelt and Chris Bass on 5th July 1968. 

The 'record' time of 80.2 which is purported to have been equalled on 9th May 1969 relates to this matching Mike Cake's time of 80.2 (noted on Speedway Researcher as a record) on 7th June 1968, but this clearly an oversight as it ignores the 'fastest' times set by Broadbelt and Bass a month later.

The British Speedway Handbooks continued to state that Jack Scott's time was the record, as printed in the programmes. Peter Craven still covered 4 laps in the fastest time though, whatever the track size.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest compost
23 hours ago, BL65 said:

At the commencement of the Provincial League 1961 season the track length was stated in the programme to have become 413 yards once more.  Plymouth programmes stated that 'the fastest time' (it does not say 'track record') was 72.4 by Jack Scott on 7th April 1961 (although Speedway Researcher shows this as 73.4).   This fastest time was printed in each programme from 14th April 1961 to 21st July 1961.  The programme for 27th July 1961 shows a 'new track record' of 72.0 by Jack Scott  on 21st July.  As this time was slower than Hoskin's time for 413 yards then it is either a new record because (a) the track was now perhaps slightly different in shape to when it was previously that length, (b) it was a new record because it was a different size to when the Craven record as set, or (c) it was a Provincial League track record - I have seen no explanation. 

The programme for the reopening meeting on 24th May 1968 (postponed and run on 31st May) stated that the track length was 400 yards, hence a new track record was established.  For 1969, the programmes showed the track length to have become 413 yards for the third time!  Details of record times shown in the programme at the start of the season were 'Track Record 72.0 by Jack Scott on 27th July 1961; Fastest Division II Time 79.6 by Eric Broadbelt and Chris Bass on 5th July 1968. 

The 'record' time of 80.2 which is purported to have been equalled on 9th May 1969 relates to this matching Mike Cake's time of 80.2 (noted on Speedway Researcher as a record) on 7th June 1968, but this clearly an oversight as it ignores the 'fastest' times set by Broadbelt and Bass a month later.

The British Speedway Handbooks continued to state that Jack Scott's time was the record, as printed in the programmes. Peter Craven still covered 4 laps in the fastest time though, whatever the track size.

Thanks BL.  Seems like they couldn't make up their minds as to the track length ! ;)

So records from the last re-opening in 1968 on really only relate to BL D2 with Craven's 70.6 being the 'all-time' TR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, compost said:

Thanks BL.  Seems like they couldn't make up their minds as to the track length ! ;)

So records from the last re-opening in 1968 on really only relate to BL D2 with Craven's 70.6 being the 'all-time' TR.

Very true.  Although Plymouth published the track length as 413 yards in 1969, the Brtish Speedway Handbook stated 400 yards, the same as in 1968, so it's anyone's guess - for now at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to Pennycross as a wee lad on holiday in 1969. I seem to recall the track had a sand like surface, before being replaced with shale in 1970. I'm not sure if this made the track slower as regards to track records.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, cityrebel said:

I went to Pennycross as a wee lad on holiday in 1969. I seem to recall the track had a sand like surface, before being replaced with shale in 1970. I'm not sure if this made the track slower as regards to track records.

Was Plymouth's track at one time made up of crushed sea shells or some such other?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Was Plymouth's track at one time made up of crushed sea shells or some such other?

1968 & 69. I think the track was tarmaced for the stock cars, when the speedway packed up in 1962.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe when Plymouth reopened in the late 60's when the 2nd Division of the British League was formed the track was tarmaced and they used to put sand on top so the speedway bikes had less grip. No doubt such a top dressing just sitting on top of a hard stock car track would of made riding very inconsistent and tricky which is probably the reason why times were so slow?

 

- Could this track surface of been the reason why speedway at Plymouth only lasted a handful of years until 1970 cause spectators grew tired of poor quality racing? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Pennycross re-opened in 1968 the nature of the track, sand on a tarmac base, gave Plymouth home track advantage, but it also worked against their inexperienced young riders as they mastered their own circuit but then struggled on away tracks with conventional surfaces.  The season was considered a success as the Devils finished in 4th spot in a league of 10 teams, but the basis of this achievement was a 100% home record, with just one success away.  The weather was unkind to Plymouth, however, with 5 meetings rained off, one abandoned and several run in adverse conditions.

The track surface was retained for the 1969 season, which saw the team plummet to 15th, with only King’s Lynn Starlets below them in the final table, following 6 home defeats and not a single away point registered.  Pete Lansdale had left the promotion, with Fred Osborn taking control.  The  team was decimated, with loanees being recalled by parent clubs and Plymouth lost the top 4 riders from 1968 before the season started  Those 4 riders had a combined average of over 33 points and they were replaced with junior riders, some being more successful than others.  Midway through the season the promoter was extremely concerned by falling attendances.

Throughout the winter of 1969-70 plans were made to continue in Division 2, with preparations including the replacement of the tarmac and sand with a conventional shale track.  In mid-March the fixture list was drawn up for the league season, including Plymouth.  However, during the winter there had been stories published of permission being sought or enquiries being made for the opening of several new speedway venues to jump on the Division 2 success bandwagon, including Bath, Rochdale, Weston-Super-Mare, Workington, Norwich, Newtongrange, Liverpool, Barry, Rye House, Newton Abbot, Torquay, Watford and Peterborough, with an appeal also being heard regarding the previous year’s refusal at Rochester.  Additionally, Sheffield had indicated an intention to run a second team in Division 2.  Early in 1970 the Division 2 promoters voted not to expand the league above 16 teams, although Belle Vue II relocated to Rochdale and Workington successfully appealed to take the number to 17.  Just as the season was starting it was confirmed that Fred Osborn had exchanged his Plymouth licence for the open licence granted to Peterborough, having been unable to assemble a competitive team and no doubt unwilling to risk significant financial loss.  The difficulties of the previous year had been repeated when two of the team’s top riders from 1969 sought transfers in the build up to the new season and replacements could not be found.  Peterborough therefore took the place of Plymouth in the league.  A season of open licence meetings was planned instead, but after a crowd of 2,000 for the opening meeting attendances dropped significantly and Plymouth closed in July.

Loanees from Exeter had formed the basis of the 1968 team, but all riders approached from elsewhere apparently refusal to join Plymouth for 1969 due to the travel involved for home meetings.  The 1968 success could not be built upon, the uncompetitive team was not sufficiently well supported in 1969 and the absence of league racing was not an attractive proposition in 1970, hence the closure.  The change to a shale surface in 1970 saw race times almost 10 seconds faster then in the previous two years.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BL65 said:

When Pennycross re-opened in 1968 the nature of the track, sand on a tarmac base, gave Plymouth home track advantage, but it also worked against their inexperienced young riders as they mastered their own circuit but then struggled on away tracks with conventional surfaces.  The season was considered a success as the Devils finished in 4th spot in a league of 10 teams, but the basis of this achievement was a 100% home record, with just one success away.  The weather was unkind to Plymouth, however, with 5 meetings rained off, one abandoned and several run in adverse conditions.

The track surface was retained for the 1969 season, which saw the team plummet to 15th, with only King’s Lynn Starlets below them in the final table, following 6 home defeats and not a single away point registered.  Pete Lansdale had left the promotion, with Fred Osborn taking control.  The  team was decimated, with loanees being recalled by parent clubs and Plymouth lost the top 4 riders from 1968 before the season started  Those 4 riders had a combined average of over 33 points and they were replaced with junior riders, some being more successful than others.  Midway through the season the promoter was extremely concerned by falling attendances.

Throughout the winter of 1969-70 plans were made to continue in Division 2, with preparations including the replacement of the tarmac and sand with a conventional shale track.  In mid-March the fixture list was drawn up for the league season, including Plymouth.  However, during the winter there had been stories published of permission being sought or enquiries being made for the opening of several new speedway venues to jump on the Division 2 success bandwagon, including Bath, Rochdale, Weston-Super-Mare, Workington, Norwich, Newtongrange, Liverpool, Barry, Rye House, Newton Abbot, Torquay, Watford and Peterborough, with an appeal also being heard regarding the previous year’s refusal at Rochester.  Additionally, Sheffield had indicated an intention to run a second team in Division 2.  Early in 1970 the Division 2 promoters voted not to expand the league above 16 teams, although Belle Vue II relocated to Rochdale and Workington successfully appealed to take the number to 17.  Just as the season was starting it was confirmed that Fred Osborn had exchanged his Plymouth licence for the open licence granted to Peterborough, having been unable to assemble a competitive team and no doubt unwilling to risk significant financial loss.  The difficulties of the previous year had been repeated when two of the team’s top riders from 1969 sought transfers in the build up to the new season and replacements could not be found.  Peterborough therefore took the place of Plymouth in the league.  A season of open licence meetings was planned instead, but after a crowd of 2,000 for the opening meeting attendances dropped significantly and Plymouth closed in July.

Loanees from Exeter had formed the basis of the 1968 team, but all riders approached from elsewhere apparently refusal to join Plymouth for 1969 due to the travel involved for home meetings.  The 1968 success could not be built upon, the uncompetitive team was not sufficiently well supported in 1969 and the absence of league racing was not an attractive proposition in 1970, hence the closure.  The change to a shale surface in 1970 saw race times almost 10 seconds faster then in the previous two years.

Briliant post again BL65! :t:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Briliant post again BL65! :t:

Thank you Steve.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at my records, i saw Plymouth beat a weakened Long Eaton side 51 - 27 in August 1969. Pennycross was No.2 in my tracks visited list, after Wimbledon the previous year. West Ham was No.3 in May 1970. It seems like a lifetime ago!.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Privacy Policy