Peterborough vs Sheffield - 12/07/21 - League Meeting

[stevehone 3,429]

i know of a call being made to Johnnie Hoskins at Canterbury asking what the weather was like at the track, the reply - meeting on, no rain.

the call was made from a phone box across the road to the track in the pouring rain

[Crump99 4,474]

4 hours ago, iainb said:

Still nobody has told me how long it takes the track to dry in the summer and nobody has said whether the meeting would have gone ahead with a better forecast. All I got was the right decision was made... even though the forecast was wrong. Reasonable explanations lol, "my parents live near the track", I'm a promoter, I know what the track can take... don't make me laugh

You were told " It might be summer but it ain't no 76" that's 1976 meaning bloody hot which would perhaps have been enough to dry the track over the weekend and Monday. However, what this summer weekend consisted of was cool, overcast weather with no drying of any note at all.

[NeilWatson 1,988]

42 minutes ago, iainb said:

Mr Watson is correct in the fact the meeting was called off 24 hours in advance. I don't know where I came up with 36 hours from and apologise for my mistake... Still too early to call it off though imo, they should have left it until around noon on the day of the match like clubs always used to, and many still do, before fans, riders and officials start off with their journey's.

'iainb', first it's good to see you have the good grace to admit when you got something wrong,  I am sorry I referred to your peurile ignorance - I could have been more measured in my frustration. However you still don't seem convinced by the decision so I thought I'd lay down some of the points I would have considered when postponing a meeting, which I have done many times. I hasten to add I wasn't involved in Sunday's cancellation although I understand and accept the reasons.

• Is the track under water - yes
• Is more rain forecast - yes it is
• Can the track be pumped off and dry out evenly (bear in mind the huge grandstand at Peterborough and that when watering for a normal meeting they often don't water under the shade) - probably not
• Even if there's no more rain can the tractors etc. get onto the track to prepare a racing surface - doubtful
• Is the rest of the stadium useable? The grass car-parks and the pits have been known to flood at the Showground
• Will fans, riders and officials incur costs that will be wasted if there is a late call-off
• Will other costs be incurred for a late call-off, rent, medical, staff etc

The Club press release referred to a number of these points but I'm sure they would all have been in the back of the mind.

For the record I am not a troll nor the person that closed down Coventry, and my history of having promoted at three different Clubs in three different leagues is something I'm very proud of. It doesn't make me an 'important' person in speedway but it does mean that when I comment there is a good deal of experience behind my explanations.

I think it's probably time to put this topic to bed. The decision was made, let's move on. If you can get more information from the Peterborough promotion, as already suggested by another poster, please do share it here so that we can all learn.

 

[IronScorpion 1,407]

6 hours ago, iainb said:

My own local track, Leicester, cancelled a match at the beginning of 2018 based on a weather forecast, the forecast was wrong, no rained appeared, consequently as a knock on effect, with other clubs no doubt doing the same kind of thing the play off finals at the end of the season were constantly being cancelled due to actual real rain with the 2nd leg of the final being run on a dismal Tuesday evening in Glasgow (is there any other kind)... that's the showpiece event in the whole season, the big crowd puller.

Take a look at this weekend, glorious weather is forecast and yet there is no meeting on anywhere in the country!

I can possibly see the logic of cancelling a meeting if a weather front is heading across the country and there is a massively high probability that rain is going to hit... but in the current spate of showers we are having it's a lottery whether you'll get rain or not, especially if you're making that decision 36 hours out.

So the fixture list goes out of the window because you may or may not get rain. Why have a fixture list at all?

If the way of things is that meetings are to be called of as a matter of course due to weather forecasts, the "sport" in this country in it's current league structure is not viable.

I'm not that desperate to know, I just asked the question and everybody piled on defending the decision to cancel based on an incorrect forecast.

Nobody knows what the weather will be like up & down the country or what damage it could do but I would take a guess that no one wanted to put on a fixture with it being the original date for the British FIM Grand Prix at Cardiff & possibly the British F1 GP at Silverstone.

[iainb 5,002]

1 hour ago, NeilWatson said:

'iainb', first it's good to see you have the good grace to admit when you got something wrong,  I am sorry I referred to your peurile ignorance - I could have been more measured in my frustration. However you still don't seem convinced by the decision so I thought I'd lay down some of the points I would have considered when postponing a meeting, which I have done many times. I hasten to add I wasn't involved in Sunday's cancellation although I understand and accept the reasons.

• Is the track under water - yes
• Is more rain forecast - yes it is
• Can the track be pumped off and dry out evenly (bear in mind the huge grandstand at Peterborough and that when watering for a normal meeting they often don't water under the shade) - probably not
• Even if there's no more rain can the tractors etc. get onto the track to prepare a racing surface - doubtful
• Is the rest of the stadium useable? The grass car-parks and the pits have been known to flood at the Showground
• Will fans, riders and officials incur costs that will be wasted if there is a late call-off
• Will other costs be incurred for a late call-off, rent, medical, staff etc

The Club press release referred to a number of these points but I'm sure they would all have been in the back of the mind.

For the record I am not a troll nor the person that closed down Coventry, and my history of having promoted at three different Clubs in three different leagues is something I'm very proud of. It doesn't make me an 'important' person in speedway but it does mean that when I comment there is a good deal of experience behind my explanations.

I think it's probably time to put this topic to bed. The decision was made, let's move on. If you can get more information from the Peterborough promotion, as already suggested by another poster, please do share it here so that we can all learn.

 

Mr Watson,

I'm always happy to correct and apologise for any factual inaccuracies, what I will not apologise for are my opinions as that is all they are, my opinions, you may disagree with them that's fine they're worth absolutely nothing and are all part of the "discussion". What does not help discussion are incendiary posts telling me my post is peurile rubbish, so on this I accept your apology and offer mine for anything I said that has offended you. It is never my intention to offend anybody but if somebody attacks me, I'm afraid the gloves are off. Perhaps a reasoned post in response like the one above would have been a better way to go.

If you'll permit me I will go through the considerations had you been the one to make the call. I do accept the postponement as there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

• Is the track under water - yes - was the track underwater at the time of cancellation, I'm not sure we know this
• Is more rain forecast - yes it is
• Can the track be pumped off and dry out evenly (bear in mind the huge grandstand at Peterborough and that when watering for a normal meeting they often don't water under the shade) - probably not - depends how wet it was at time of cancellation
• Even if there's no more rain can the tractors etc. get onto the track to prepare a racing surface - doubtful - again we don't know
• Is the rest of the stadium useable? The grass car-parks and the pits have been known to flood at the Showground - we don't know
• Will fans, riders and officials incur costs that will be wasted if there is a late call-off - what do we define as a late cancellation, I would say anything after 6pm on the day of the match
• Will other costs be incurred for a late call-off, rent, medical, staff etc - again, how late is late

Maybe an extra consideration should be, what kind of knock on effect is this going to have on future fixtures, not just by the decision that Peterborough made but also other clubs that call fixtures off based on forecasts.

You may not be a troll but chasing me down on another thread again calling me peurile and ignorant is pretty troll like behaviour.

As for the Coventry , Mr Horton and by association you, situation, this is still a very emotive topic for many people so it may be best to let that particular sleeping dog lie.

All the best.

Iain

[iainb 5,002]

2 minutes ago, IronScorpion said:

Nobody knows what the weather will be like up & down the country or what damage it could do but I would take a guess that no one wanted to put on a fixture with it being the original date for the British FIM Grand Prix at Cardiff & possibly the British F1 GP at Silverstone.

Yes, I get that, but the GP was postponed back in April... And Eastbourne are running a double header on Sunday directly against the Silverstone GP, a very brave move.

[iainb 5,002]

2 hours ago, Crump99 said:

You were told " It might be summer but it ain't no 76" that's 1976 meaning bloody hot which would perhaps have been enough to dry the track over the weekend and Monday. However, what this summer weekend consisted of was cool, overcast weather with no drying of any note at all.

I well remember the summer of '76 as I got horribly sunburned as a young pup on Fistral beach in Cornwall, I still have the scars on my shoulders!!

One can't help but wonder if the match would have been cancelled so far in advance if it had been in front of the cameras?

[NeilWatson 1,988]

3 minutes ago, iainb said:

I well remember the summer of '76 as I got horribly sunburned as a young pup on Fistral beach in Cornwall, I still have the scars on my shoulders!!

One can't help but wonder if the match would have been cancelled so far in advance if it had been in front of the cameras?

Even more likely to be postponed in my experience, the broadcast costs are so high that rain-offs once everything is in place are to be avoided at all costs.

[NeilWatson 1,988]

10 minutes ago, iainb said:

Mr Watson,

I'm always happy to correct and apologise for any factual inaccuracies, what I will not apologise for are my opinions as that is all they are, my opinions, you may disagree with them that's fine they're worth absolutely nothing and are all part of the "discussion". What does not help discussion are incendiary posts telling me my post is peurile rubbish, so on this I accept your apology and offer mine for anything I said that has offended you. It is never my intention to offend anybody but if somebody attacks me, I'm afraid the gloves are off. Perhaps a reasoned post in response like the one above would have been a better way to go.

If you'll permit me I will go through the considerations had you been the one to make the call. I do accept the postponement as there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

• Is the track under water - yes - was the track underwater at the time of cancellation, I'm not sure we know this
• Is more rain forecast - yes it is
• Can the track be pumped off and dry out evenly (bear in mind the huge grandstand at Peterborough and that when watering for a normal meeting they often don't water under the shade) - probably not - depends how wet it was at time of cancellation
• Even if there's no more rain can the tractors etc. get onto the track to prepare a racing surface - doubtful - again we don't know
• Is the rest of the stadium useable? The grass car-parks and the pits have been known to flood at the Showground - we don't know
• Will fans, riders and officials incur costs that will be wasted if there is a late call-off - what do we define as a late cancellation, I would say anything after 6pm on the day of the match
• Will other costs be incurred for a late call-off, rent, medical, staff etc - again, how late is late

Maybe an extra consideration should be, what kind of knock on effect is this going to have on future fixtures, not just by the decision that Peterborough made but also other clubs that call fixtures off based on forecasts.

You may not be a troll but chasing me down on another thread again calling me peurile and ignorant is pretty troll like behaviour.

As for the Coventry , Mr Horton and by association you, situation, this is still a very emotive topic for many people so it may be best to let that particular sleeping dog lie.

All the best.

Iain

Still not convinced then……. Oh well :-) 

[iainb 5,002]

1 minute ago, NeilWatson said:

Still not convinced then……. Oh well :-) 

Afraid not... seen too many matches cancelled on incorrect forecasts and then watched too many matches at the end of the season, with too much at stake on atrocious tracks...

Agree to disagree :-)

[Red Flag 454]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

Afraid not... seen too many matches cancelled on incorrect forecasts and then watched too many matches at the end of the season, with too much at stake on atrocious tracks...

Agree to disagree :-)

Someone take that bloody bone off him

[Falcon1983 557]

10 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Worst advice ever. Club will always say it's on. Many a time I've sat at home looking at the rain and puddles with no chance of there being a meeting but official channels still cling on until the obvious is announced.

Sorry - you probably mean in this instance and not generally.

Yeah mate I mean just in this instance as Ian needs answers nobody can give on here 

[iainb 5,002]

7 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

Yeah mate I mean just in this instance as Ian needs answers nobody can give on here 

Don't "need" answers at all, was just asking a question and everybody got their knickers in a twist 

You may have gathered by now that I, as a fan, am not keen on postponements based on weather forecasts, not only is it frustrating when you're sat at home and the sun is shining outside, it's also frustrating at the end of the season when showpiece events that should be attracting big crowds are crammed in, often on "off" race nights on wet unraceable tracks. All of these false postponements have a knock on effect with the fixtures. Below is what was cancelled in October 2019 due to actual real rain.

Premiership P/O SF
National League PO SF
British Youth Championship Round 7
National League Riders' Championship
Premiership P/O SF
Premiership Supporters Cup
Championship KO Cup Final
Premiership Grand Final.1
National League Grand Final.1
Championship Grand Final.1
Championship KO Cup Final
British Youth Championship
National League Grand Final.2
National League KOC Final

I would also bet that the restaging of many of these were held on less than perfect tracks.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by iainb