Why speedway is failing

[cowboy cookie returns? 747]

39 minutes ago, chunky said:

Everyone focuses on "credibiity", but that his little or nothing to do with it. If it was an enjoyable and entertaining night out, most wouldn't give a toss about credibility...

It has everything to do with it if you want to run a league or cup competition. Without credibility you won't get major backers unless they are speedway fans. There are plenty on here who have said credibility is a major issue & why they have given up!

If you want to run a Micky mouse league that means nothing to anyone bar about 20000 people nationwide each week then you don't need it.

Just to put that in context 20000 people a week roughly attend UK speedway possibly less if the same person attendeds more that one meeting. My local football club Ipswich had more than that to watch league one game on Saturday.

 

[chunky 6,086]

15 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

It has everything to do with it if you want to run a league or cup competition. Without credibility you won't get major backers unless they are speedway fans. There are plenty on here who have said credibility is a major issue & why they have given up!

If you want to run a Micky mouse league that means nothing to anyone bar about 20000 people nationwide each week then you don't need it.

Just to put that in context 20000 people a week roughly attend UK speedway possibly less if the same person attendeds more that one meeting. My local football club Ipswich had more than that to watch league one game on Saturday.

 

There have ALWAYS been crazy rules - rider control, for example - but people still showed up... It doesn't matter how cheap or credible something is if it's not enjoyable.

[mikebv 10,242]

2 hours ago, chunky said:

Everyone focuses on "credibiity", but that his little or nothing to do with it. If it was an enjoyable and entertaining night out, most wouldn't give a toss about credibility...

But if you want to sell it as a team sport there has to be emotional attachment to that team..

Or simply no point in doing it...

UK Speedway obviously cannot/choose not to (delete as applicable), run it as a team sport "properly" therefore their operating model cannot do anything positive whatsoever, but can only impact it negatively..

Only the riders benefit from the operating model, team sponsors and fans definitely dont..

I 100% agree if what you had was entertaining then it could work, sadly when what you are watching comes under the word "contrived", getting people to buy into in more than once or twice initially will take some doing..

The lack of any league sponsor, or major company team sponsorship speaks volumes for its operating model as no company would want to put their name to something so made up..

Riders can pick and choose when to turn up, and have a night off as they are tired...

Or get stopped from riding for their own team when fit, after representing their other team several times in the previous few days..

Both scenarios resulting in guests, as shown this week..

Teams will go into the play offs not allowed to sign replacements for genuinely injured riders out for the season, and instead get to use track specialist ringers as guests..

You would need a seasons worth of full on entertainment in every meeting to make all the above nonsense get accepted..

Speedway should just either decide to do "it properly" or not at all, as the current "fudge our way through" simply wont cut it..

And by "doing it properly" either run (at least) the top league with credibility, or run individual meetings similar to Grass tracks, Superbikes, MX and MotoGp, with decent fields and prize money..

When you have to collude with the promoters that what you are watching is "real" they have a serious problem, however....

The raw product of Speedway racing can be uniquely exhilarating from a spectating perspective...

So THAT is what they should sell..

Meaningful meetings, with a decent standard of rider, all racing for a decent prize pot, on days or nights when the healthiest crowd can be attracted to generate some atmosphere, at a price point conducive to attract, rather than prohibit, the fans from turning up..

If that's within a team framework then fine, and if it isnt, then also fine...

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by mikebv

[Hawk127 1,357]

Mikebv sums it up nicely. Anyone who really thinks that you have a local team is in the main deluded. You have individual riders who are self employed and financially need to look after to number so will ride for anybody anywhere as long as they are earning. Individuals who rarely team ride or look out for their partner in a heat. So you have individuals who conveniently link themselves to a club name for their own benefit. No loyalty no local input, rarely out and about locally promoting their’ club and dictating when they ride, the type of track and not forgetting the weather has to be perfect. If a cat or dog pisses on a track, let’s abandon the meeting. People wonder why no one wants to be a major sponsor and TV uses the sport as a filler. Wholesale changes needed but it will never happen. It has lost its way and can never be compared to the set ups in other countries. It has fallen on its sword.

[Fromafar 10,335]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

There have ALWAYS been crazy rules - rider control, for example - but people still showed up... It doesn't matter how cheap or credible something is if it's not enjoyable.

Not as many people showing up now though.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,941]

3 hours ago, chunky said:

Everyone focuses on "credibiity", but that his little or nothing to do with it. If it was an enjoyable and entertaining night out, most wouldn't give a toss about credibility...

Although it could be argued that never managed to attract the same media coverage or anything like the sponsors that some other sports did. That's did for it in the end, when the crowds started dropping away. 

[chunky 6,086]

55 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Not as many people showing up now though.

Not many bloody teams to follow now...

[chunky 6,086]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

But if you want to sell it as a team sport there has to be emotional attachment to that team..

For me, the biggest obstacle for it as a"team" sport is the fact that clubs can't use the riders they want, and riders can't ride for the clubs they want, because teams seem to be solely constructed using averages. With the ridiculously low points limits, riders are forced out not only from their teams, but their leagues...

[mikebv 10,242]

3 hours ago, chunky said:

There have ALWAYS been crazy rules - rider control, for example - but people still showed up... It doesn't matter how cheap or credible something is if it's not enjoyable.

But back then you got to watch the worlds best on TV on one of only three channels most Saturday afternoons, with many of them household names..

And then had your tea...

And then went to watch the same lads ride at your local track..

For a small dent in your disposable income.. 

With England ruling the roost in the Speedway World...

Meaning the domestic leagues fed off the international success being beamed into (literally) millions of homes..

And if PC or Ivan were "elsewhere" and a guest replaced them, you found out at the track, after you had paid to get in, not days in advance..

Then the USA and the Danes took over..

So Promoters brought more of them over..

And then more Swedes, Norwegians, Aussies, Czechs, NZ's, Finns, Poles, etc etc etc..

And then viewing figures dropped because England were no longer winning, nor even looking like winning..

So the TV companies stopped beaming the sport into millions of homes...

So then crowds started to drop in domestic racing.. 

Meaning inflation busting admission fees started to rise to pay for all these overseas stars, and the drop in crowd levels..

And that was 35 or so years ago..

Yet the same operating model has taken place all that time until today where we now seem to have realised that a successful national team might help fill some domestic league meetings with fans..

Yet that is undermined by all that nonsense that still exists with "guests", ridiculous made up rules, poor track prep etc, but is now done in a 24/7 social media glare which (quite rightly), holds it up to the ridicule it deserves.. 

People's disposable income has shrunk due to so much modern technology in the home and life in general being "a basic need", and not a luxury, with monthly outgoings very high in many homes..

Nowadays a Speedway meeting doesnt leave a small dent in the disposable income anymore, but a significant one..

What you could do and get away with in the 70's and 80's you cannot now..

The Worlds moved on, but UK Speedway didn't, and to a huge degree, still hasn't. .

Edited September 14, 2021 by mikebv

[cowboy cookie returns? 747]

22 minutes ago, mikebv said:

But back then you got to watch the worlds best on TV on one of only three channels most Saturday afternoons, with many of them household names..

And then had your tea...

And then went to watch the same lads ride at your local track..

For a small dent in your disposable income.. 

With England ruling the roost in the Speedway World...

Meaning the domestic leagues fed off the international success being beamed into (literally) millions of homes..

And if PC or Ivan were "elsewhere" and a guest replaced them, you found out at the track, after you had paid to get in, not days in advance..

Then the USA and the Danes took over..

So Promoters brought more of them over..

And then more Swedes, Norwegians, Aussies, Czechs, NZ's, Finns, Poles, etc etc etc..

And then viewing figures dropped because England were no longer winning, nor even looking like winning..

So the TV companies stopped beaming the sport into millions of homes...

So then crowds started to drop in domestic racing.. 

Meaning inflation busting admission fees started to rise to pay for all these overseas stars, and the drop in crowd levels..

And that was 35 or so years ago..

Yet the same operating model has taken place all that time until today where we now seem to have realised that a successful national team might help fill some domestic league meetings with fans..

Yet that is undermined by all that nonsense that still exists with "guests", ridiculous made up rules, poor track prep etc, but is now done in a 24/7 social media glare which (quite rightly), holds it up to the ridicule it deserves.. 

People's disposable income has shrunk due to so much modern technology in the home and life in general being "a basic need", and not a luxury, with monthly outgoings very high in many homes..

Nowadays a Speedway meeting doesnt leave a small dent in the disposable income anymore, but a significant one..

What you could do and get away with in the 70's and 80's you cannot now..

The Worlds moved on, but UK Speedway didn't, and to a huge degree, still hasn't. .

Totally spot on, you & I have the same thoughts.

They have had years to come up with something better and 10 very good years with SKY involved but did the square route of nothing.

Now the sport is to fragile with such a small fanbase it can't afford to change.

[chunky 6,086]

16 minutes ago, mikebv said:

But back then you got to watch the worlds best on TV on one of only three channels most Saturday afternoons, with many of them household names..

And then had your tea...

And then went to watch the same lads ride at your local track..

For a small dent in your disposable income.. 

With England ruling the roost in the Speedway World...

Meaning the domestic leagues fed off the international success being beamed into (literally) millions of homes..

And if PC or Ivan were "elsewhere" and a guest replaced them, you found out at the track, after you had paid to get in, not days in advance..

Then the USA and the Danes took over..

So Promoters brought more of them over..

And then more Swedes, Norwegians, Aussies, Czechs, NZ's, Finns, Poles, etc etc etc..

And then viewing figures dropped because England were no longer winning, nor even looking like winning..

So the TV companies stopped beaming the sport into millions of homes...

Sorry, but that is a gross exaggeration; "most" Saturday afternoons? We had maybe half a dozen meetings on 'World of Sport', and The Internationale on 'Grandstand'.

Another gross exaggeration is "England ruling the roost". Okay, we did good in 1980...

Don't blame it on the foreigners either! They brought skill and glamour - and increased crowds. Anyway, packing teams with foreigners hasn't hurt football any...

Viewing figure dropped because - as many have stated on here - speedway ceased to be "cool". Don't ask me why, it just happened.

It started to really stagnate with the redevelopment of stadia (particularly those in city centres, of which there were many), and we were forced out into the sticks. That's those that were able to survive of course. Then, the death of greyhound racing hammered another few nails into our coffin.

[mikebv 10,242]

26 minutes ago, chunky said:

Sorry, but that is a gross exaggeration; "most" Saturday afternoons? We had maybe half a dozen meetings on 'World of Sport', and The Internationale on 'Grandstand'.

Another gross exaggeration is "England ruling the roost". Okay, we did good in 1980...

Don't blame it on the foreigners either! They brought skill and glamour - and increased crowds. Anyway, packing teams with foreigners hasn't hurt football any...

Viewing figure dropped because - as many have stated on here - speedway ceased to be "cool". Don't ask me why, it just happened.

It started to really stagnate with the redevelopment of stadia (particularly those in city centres, of which there were many), and we were forced out into the sticks. That's those that were able to survive of course. Then, the death of greyhound racing hammered another few nails into our coffin.

The 70's and (very early), 80's were dominated by Englands success at WTC, Best Pairs, and Individual level with PC and Michael Lee, two sportsmen known as well as any in the country..

PC must have been worth the admission alone at most tracks domestically after watching him thrill the watching millions on World Of Sport throughout the Speedway season, with several 100 (at least), going just to see him..

And even when not winning England always were in with a chance of success so would keep the watching viewer interested by being in contention...

Then the foreign contingent took over..

And some may have engaged crowds by their colourful antics and cheery disposition, and also no doubt raised standards significantly given the talent of some of them.. 

However, it was then the free for all that took place whereby any number of foreign journeymen riders were brought over to replace any number of other foreign journeymen riders ad nauseam that set the rot in..

People just lost interest because there wasnt enough to keep them interested...

Riders you had no affinity with, being replaced with riders you had no affinity with, was not a great fan engagement plan..

Nor were the regular price increases to pay for the overseas lads and the drop in crowds.. 

And of course having so many places filled by non GB riders impacted internationally as GB started to struggle due to a lack of talent coming through..

Football brings dozens of foreign players over because they have the money to invest/speculate..

Speedway spent its money from Sky (millions and millions), on ensuring the top riders rode here, rather than investing in some stand alone infrastructure..

And the top lads promptly cleared off when the Sky money dropped...

There are a plethora of reasons of why we are where we are today but there is no doubt so much of it is down to those who have ran it..

Death by a thousand cuts is usually done to others and not to yourself.. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by mikebv

[chunky 6,086]

5 minutes ago, mikebv said:

And even when not winning England always were in with a chance of success so would keep the watching viewer interested by being in contention...

Really? They couldn't even qualify for finals - when they were in England!

[Hawk127 1,357]

3 minutes ago, chunky said:

Really? They couldn't even qualify for finals - when they were in England!

A selective response to an overview which in my view has accurately described the sad state that speedway finds itself in and has little chance of recovery without a major sea change.

Let’s face Speedway has lost its way, promoters, club owners, managers and local sponsors are delusional and what you had way back in the 70’s and beyond was entertainment with the elite of world riders gracing U K tracks plying their trade and offering entertainment with up and coming talent given the chance either through second halves or via a reserve spot to take on the great and good of the sport. The training and honing your track craft is lost on the current crop of gate and go merchants. One thing that is indisputable is that the sport in this country is in serious decline and we may well lose, for a variety of reasons, the likes of Eastbourne, Swindon, Peterborough, Newcastle, Poole, Birmingham and who knows which other tracks that are under the threat of housing development etc. and/or are for financial reasons borderline cases to continue in 2022. 

I like many regret the sad state that speedway finds itself in and having been to meetings since 1968 it has had its peaks and troughs but it is a simple format which can entertain except that the riders are not committed to the clubs and  the promoters are held to ransom by the riders whose interest ceases at the bank account. That is fine but most riders treat the supporter/customer with such contempt they do not deserve the following.  Most of the riders in the upper echelons are so far removed from reality and that state of speedway in the U.K. that they need to get real. 

 

[chunky 6,086]

2 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

A selective response to an overview which in my view has accurately described the sad state that speedway finds itself in and has little chance of recovery without a major sea change.

Let’s face Speedway has lost its way, promoters, club owners, managers and local sponsors are delusional and what you had way back in the 70’s and beyond was entertainment with the elite of world riders gracing U K tracks plying their trade and offering entertainment with up and coming talent given the chance either through second halves or via a reserve spot to take on the great and good of the sport. The training and honing your track craft is lost on the current crop of gate and go merchants. One thing that is indisputable is that the sport in this country is in serious decline and we may well lose, for a variety of reasons, the likes of Eastbourne, Swindon, Peterborough, Newcastle, Poole, Birmingham and who knows which other tracks that are under the threat of housing development etc. and/or are for financial reasons borderline cases to continue in 2022. 

I like many regret the sad state that speedway finds itself in and having been to meetings since 1968 it has had its peaks and troughs but it is a simple format which can entertain except that the riders are not committed to the clubs and  the promoters are held to ransom by the riders whose interest ceases at the bank account. That is fine but most riders treat the supporter/customer with such contempt they do not deserve the following.  Most of the riders in the upper echelons are so far removed from reality and that state of speedway in the U.K. that they need to get real. 

 

My response was just aimed at the comment that stated the "England ruled the roost"...

I agree with everything you say, but don't agree with the reasoning stated mikebv; there are many other reasons that have contributed to speedway's decline. However, the biggest threat to British speedway is the loss of venues. Without somewhere to race, we are screwed...