Why speedway is failing

[Humphrey Appleby 13,935]

On 9/15/2021 at 7:16 AM, mikebv said:

And personally, if they want to run the sport as a team sport, and the rider wants to ride full time, then all sponsorship should go into a pool for the club to use..

I think it fairness, even in sports that are entirely team oriented like football, players have long had individual sponsorships.  

On 9/15/2021 at 7:16 AM, mikebv said:

A recent example of a theft from a young "junior" making his way in the Speedway World highlighted just how ridiculous things have become..

According to his team manager in the SS, to buy the kit stolen from his van, from scratch, would be £20k...

A van that was ultra professionally finished on the outside with a superb action shot of the rider painted on the side...

When a "junior" feels he needs all that just to compete in a sport ran in front of several hundred people, then it truly is in trouble.. 

It's a difficult one, because if you're turning out in a rusty old white van then that doesn't look good either from a sponsorship perspective or convey a professional image of the sport. I suspect sponsors also expect to get some advertisement on the van and kit as well.

Of course you have to question whether any of this is actually benefitting the sport, but I'd not think £20k is an especially high amount when you break it down. 

[truthsayer 234]

On 9/16/2021 at 11:03 AM, Humphrey Appleby said:

I also think competitions needs to have context - having a few scratch races is okay for an amateur meeting where only friends and family turn up, but I'm not sure will keep the interest of a paying public. 

Amateurs are the lifeblood of all other motorsports.

They pay to race as their hobby. Their entry fees put money into the sport. It supports venues and industry suppliers.

There is none of this in speedway. Club racing, well run, can provide a fulfilling day's racing for competitors of all levels. Entry fees, not ticket sales, sustain the clubs. Young riders get an opportunity to practice and develop. Older riders get a chance of competing on their own terms. A few, very few, make it to a level where they make money, or at least break even.

If I was a youngster, I'd rather race motocross where I get more track time. All Britain's top racers in other disciplines started off in club racing, it's where talent develops.

The whole concept of developing speedway as a professional product for the fans is flawed in my opinion. Develop the product for the riders, a mass of riders. Give them a product that's appealing, that they'd rather do instead of motocross, enduro or banger racing, and let that keep the clubs and venues alive. Venues who feel that they can offer a spectator led offering are, of course, welcome to do so.

I can't see a future for speedway, but having a stable base at the bottom of the sport is critical. How can speedway attract new riders when there is essentially nowhere to practice?

BTW, speedway is not the only sport in this position. Consumers have more choice now. Going to speedway was a big night out for me in the early 80s. Now I have so many other things wanting my dollar, and they almost always win.

 

 

[Fromafar 10,333]

3 hours ago, truthsayer said:

Amateurs are the lifeblood of all other motorsports.

They pay to race as their hobby. Their entry fees put money into the sport. It supports venues and industry suppliers.

There is none of this in speedway. Club racing, well run, can provide a fulfilling day's racing for competitors of all levels. Entry fees, not ticket sales, sustain the clubs. Young riders get an opportunity to practice and develop. Older riders get a chance of competing on their own terms. A few, very few, make it to a level where they make money, or at least break even.

If I was a youngster, I'd rather race motocross where I get more track time. All Britain's top racers in other disciplines started off in club racing, it's where talent develops.

The whole concept of developing speedway as a professional product for the fans is flawed in my opinion. Develop the product for the riders, a mass of riders. Give them a product that's appealing, that they'd rather do instead of motocross, enduro or banger racing, and let that keep the clubs and venues alive. Venues who feel that they can offer a spectator led offering are, of course, welcome to do so.

I can't see a future for speedway, but having a stable base at the bottom of the sport is critical. How can speedway attract new riders when there is essentially nowhere to practice?

BTW, speedway is not the only sport in this position. Consumers have more choice now. Going to speedway was a big night out for me in the early 80s. Now I have so many other things wanting my dollar, and they almost always win.

 

 

Excellent Post.

[mikebv 10,240]

On 9/18/2021 at 6:04 PM, truthsayer said:

Amateurs are the lifeblood of all other motorsports.

They pay to race as their hobby. Their entry fees put money into the sport. It supports venues and industry suppliers.

There is none of this in speedway. Club racing, well run, can provide a fulfilling day's racing for competitors of all levels. Entry fees, not ticket sales, sustain the clubs. Young riders get an opportunity to practice and develop. Older riders get a chance of competing on their own terms. A few, very few, make it to a level where they make money, or at least break even.

If I was a youngster, I'd rather race motocross where I get more track time. All Britain's top racers in other disciplines started off in club racing, it's where talent develops.

The whole concept of developing speedway as a professional product for the fans is flawed in my opinion. Develop the product for the riders, a mass of riders. Give them a product that's appealing, that they'd rather do instead of motocross, enduro or banger racing, and let that keep the clubs and venues alive. Venues who feel that they can offer a spectator led offering are, of course, welcome to do so.

I can't see a future for speedway, but having a stable base at the bottom of the sport is critical. How can speedway attract new riders when there is essentially nowhere to practice?

BTW, speedway is not the only sport in this position. Consumers have more choice now. Going to speedway was a big night out for me in the early 80s. Now I have so many other things wanting my dollar, and they almost always win.

 

 

The whole concept is inherently flawed isn't it?

Riders are paying out huge sums of money to buy what they feel is the required kit, to either get, and hold down, a team place and earn money, or further their own ambitions on the world stage...

With the money they earn needing to be of a level to afford the kit they need, and provide them with 12 months salary for a six/seven month job...

And to earn that level of money they then ride for all and sundry on an ad hoc basis to get as much as they can..

An ad hoc basis which cripples any credibility that the sport has, and reduces it to a contrived farce...

A farce that drives people who loved watching Speedway,, (and still do), away...

And if the farce that masquerades as a 'proper sport' isn't enough to drive you away,, admission fees then reflect the cost of the salaries of the riders rather than the credibility or entertainment level on view..

With the farce being so contrived it renders all the competitions worthless, from a kudos point of view, yet costs hundreds of thousands from a salary point of view...

And all done on nights and days when the riders, rather than the customers, dictate to you when you should run..

An amazing plan...

(An amazingly unfit for purpose plan)...

Yet.....

What  a fantastic core product they have to sell.....

Edited September 20, 2021 by mikebv

[topsoil 2,498]

Here's an unpopular post for you, speedway is failing because of the fans.

It's often said on here that speedway should try and copy darts, T20 cricket, The Hundred and create an atmosphere.

You look at these sports and the fans are creating a party atmosphere (usually alcohol induced).

You look at speedway. There's no singing, no chanting, no drums / other musical instruments, no fancy dress (unless you count a Wulfsort jacket). What happens after a race? Programmes are filled in. That looks great for TV. Then they sit back down in their deck chairs. Polish fans (what little I've seen of Polish speedway) create an atmosphere.

Just a thought.

[orion 7,610]

9 minutes ago, topsoil said:

Here's an unpopular post for you, speedway is failing because of the fans.

It's often said on here that speedway should try and copy darts, T20 cricket, The Hundred and create an atmosphere.

You look at these sports and the fans are creating a party atmosphere (usually alcohol induced).

You look at speedway. There's no singing, no chanting, no drums / other musical instruments, no fancy dress (unless you count a Wulfsort jacket). What happens after a race? Programmes are filled in. That looks great for TV. Then they sit back down in their deck chairs. Polish fans (what little I've seen of Polish speedway) create an atmosphere.

Just a thought.

Mainly because most fans are between 50 -70 ....maybe the way  forward is to charge for the  toilet ... maybe 2 pound a piss ...clubs would rake it in  .

[truthsayer 234]

7 minutes ago, topsoil said:

Here's an unpopular post for you, speedway is failing because of the fans.

Speedway is failing for many, many reasons.

While I agree with you on the whole, I think that the lack of riders coming through is a massive issue. 

More local riders are essential. There is a need to reduce costs. Having riders commuting from other countries (and even from one end of the country to the other) is not sustainable.

There are not enough riders in the sport. IMO, the priorities are to bring in more riders - not just elite riders but just actual riders - and to ensure that clubs have sustainable business models.

Speedway is an exciting and relatively inexpensive form of motorsport to participate in, but it is not appealing as an amateur sport.

[topsoil 2,498]

54 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Speedway is failing for many, many reasons.

While I agree with you on the whole, I think that the lack of riders coming through is a massive issue. 

More local riders are essential. There is a need to reduce costs. Having riders commuting from other countries (and even from one end of the country to the other) is not sustainable.

There are not enough riders in the sport. IMO, the priorities are to bring in more riders - not just elite riders but just actual riders - and to ensure that clubs have sustainable business models.

Speedway is an exciting and relatively inexpensive form of motorsport to participate in, but it is not appealing as an amateur sport.

Agree totally that more riders are needed, but not so sure about the 'inexpensive to participate in' bit.

[mikebv 10,240]

1 hour ago, topsoil said:

Here's an unpopular post for you, speedway is failing because of the fans.

It's often said on here that speedway should try and copy darts, T20 cricket, The Hundred and create an atmosphere.

You look at these sports and the fans are creating a party atmosphere (usually alcohol induced).

You look at speedway. There's no singing, no chanting, no drums / other musical instruments, no fancy dress (unless you count a Wulfsort jacket). What happens after a race? Programmes are filled in. That looks great for TV. Then they sit back down in their deck chairs. Polish fans (what little I've seen of Polish speedway) create an atmosphere.

Just a thought.

All true, but the major reason for the lack of atmosphere is the lack of crowds...

A chicken and egg situation....

I have no issue singing along at Old Trafford when surrounded by thousands of others...

But would look a bit daft doing the same at the NSS surrounded by empty red seats.....

Or stood on the back straight in a section with just me and an octogenarian spilling his teeth out while he sang... 

What happened to King's Lynn's great song they did....?

If that didn't generate great atmosphere then nothing will..... 

In Poland (just like any sporting occasion), the crowd levels generate the atmosphere, as being within a crowd loosens your inhibitions..

They also though in Poland have a "proper" sporting contest to follow with some tangible meaning to the result, and can cheer on their riders knowing none of them will "stitch them up" a week later by top scoring for their nearest rivals and ruining their own chances of success......

None of the above that supporters over here can say.....

"Racing was so much better in the past"...

I would suggest it was similar to what we have today in the main...

The difference being the crowd levels generated the atmosphere which covered the more mundane races (and there were lots of them just like today)...

Nowadays a mundane race is met with silence, with good races generating no more than a muted response by "one man and his dog"...

It has always baffled me why, when on TV, clubs don't just let anyone and everyone in for a nominal charge just so the place is packed and "rocking"...

A free two hour advert for your club and business....

At the NSS you often see rows and rows of empty seats from the start line camera 15 times a night...

Basically advertising "no one watches this sport".....

Edited September 19, 2021 by mikebv

[truthsayer 234]

3 minutes ago, topsoil said:

Agree totally that more riders are needed, but not so sure about the 'inexpensive to participate in' bit.

In the context of motorsports, speedway is very inexpensive. 

[JamesHarris 390]

3 hours ago, mikebv said:

All true, but the major reason for the lack of atmosphere is the lack of crowds...

A chicken and egg situation....

I have no issue singing along at Old Trafford when surrounded by thousands of others...

But would look a bit daft doing the same at the NSS surrounded by empty red seats.....

Or stood on the back straight in a section with just me and an octogenarian spilling his teeth out while he sang... 

What happened to King's Lynn's great song they did....?

If that didn't generate great atmosphere then nothing will..... 

In Poland (just like any sporting occasion), the crowd levels generate the atmosphere, as being within a crowd loosens your inhibitions..

They also though in Poland have a "proper" sporting contest to follow with some tangible meaning to the result, and can cheer on their riders knowing none of them will "stitch them up" a week later by top scoring for their nearest rivals and ruining their own chances of success......

None of the above that supporters over here can say.....

"Racing was so much better in the past"...

I would suggest it was similar to what we have today in the main...

The difference being the crowd levels generated the atmosphere which covered the more mundane races (and there were lots of them just like today)...

Nowadays a mundane race is met with silence, with good races generating no more than a muted response by "one man and his dog"...

It has always baffled me why, when on TV, clubs don't just let anyone and everyone in for a nominal charge just so the place is packed and "rocking"...

A free two hour advert for your club and business....

At the NSS you often see rows and rows of empty seats from the start line camera 15 times a night...

Basically advertising "no one watches this sport".....

Bit of a strange one really. I've watched Polish speedway and the atmosphere in the crowd it buzzing. We just don't have the same thing here. All that happens here is the DJ will play some cheesy tune from the 80's and the fans will clap like sea lions at feeding time when the home rider wins. I've even been to meetings here where the racing was good but there was probably more atmosphere on the Moon! 

I remember around the turn of the millennium Belle Vue used to bring a band of foul mouthed oinks on their travels who got a little animated but I wouldn't call that an atmosphere.    

[Trees 2,814]

6 hours ago, JamesHarris said:

Bit of a strange one really. I've watched Polish speedway and the atmosphere in the crowd it buzzing. We just don't have the same thing here. All that happens here is the DJ will play some cheesy tune from the 80's and the fans will clap like sea lions at feeding time when the home rider wins. I've even been to meetings here where the racing was good but there was probably more atmosphere on the Moon! 

I remember around the turn of the millennium Belle Vue used to bring a band of foul mouthed oinks on their travels who got a little animated but I wouldn't call that an atmosphere.    

Did you add to the atmosphere with whooping and fist pumps?

I think the alcohol is a pretty big part in the making of the atmosphere in Poland. The few times I have been we've all had drink before the meeting, it's what they do on Sunday dinnertime!  Not quite the same when you're getting home from work on a Thursday afternoon, rushing down your tea and then driving for an hour to support your team BUT we can still give the meeting our 100% interest, cheer on our team before, during and after the meeting instead of chatting amongst ourselves!

 

[mikebv 10,240]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:08 PM, Trees said:

Did you add to the atmosphere with whooping and fist pumps?

I think the alcohol is a pretty big part in the making of the atmosphere in Poland. The few times I have been we've all had drink before the meeting, it's what they do on Sunday dinnertime!  Not quite the same when you're getting home from work on a Thursday afternoon, rushing down your tea and then driving for an hour to support your team BUT we can still give the meeting our 100% interest, cheer on our team before, during and after the meeting instead of chatting amongst ourselves!

 

Again, it ultimately goes back to credibility....

I can 100% guarantee that literally thousands of Wroclaw fans wouldnt' be chanting Woffy's name if he had top scored the previous Sunday for Gorzow whilst covering a Zmarzlik injury absence...

A performance from him which could then result in Wroclaw's omission from the play offs and Gorzow's inclusion instead.. 

That is really the bottom line as to the lack of atmosphere, and lack of crowds over here..

You cannot make any "emotional investment" into "your team" because, for many weeks of the season, it will just be an ad hoc hybrid of everyone else's.. 

With the ("your") rider doing the lap of honour potentially riding against you a few days later....

If Poland ran the same system as the UK, then they too would have low attendance levels, no major sponsorship of teams and leagues, and TV companies would be using their coverage as very much a second thought "filler", like we have, rather than by having to out bid each other to win the contracts to show it...

Some people still believe that anyone who pulls on their teams' colours are "their riders" and will cheer them on..

Which is fine if some want to suspend reality and believe that...

I would suggest looking at the numbers through the gates these days, that this is an ever dwindling number who are still prepared to "pretend" that what they are watching is "real", and actually has some purpose and relevance..

Edited September 21, 2021 by mikebv

[Jonny the spud 2,281]

Thé fact that the powers that be have consistently failed to find a top named league sponsor for the last two decades tells you all you need to know 

[moxey63 1,785]

Speedway is failing, not only due to, but because people who are really just fans with money are running the sport. They are called promoters. Obviously they do so because they love speedway, but at the same time they don't see the problems with it. We are all speedway fans, and when someone offers a suggestion or criticism of the product, it tends to get the speedway fan's back up. A lot promoters plough wads of money into the club just to keep it afloat. It shows their intentions are well and good. When the well runs dry, cash runs out, the track is placed into trouble. Then someone else rides in to the rescue, another speedway supporter with money, and we repeat the previous process. The sport needs to cut its cloth accordingly. It needs a genuine root and branch review of why it has sunk this low. I know the pandemic has given it a right old bruising, but we've been travelling in this direction for years, and yet the sport relied on a make-do attitude of focusing on the end-of-season play offs, which mean nothing if the track folds in the winter. Look at many of the established clubs that have gone by the wayside. Their success means nothing to history if the sport doesn't survive tomorrow.    

Edited September 20, 2021 by moxey63