Speedway to reinvent itself?

[enotian 562]

2 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

As for reinvention well the sport has to decide what it wants to be.

A team sport in that case make it a team sport that people can attach too ditch doubling up and work to rid the sport of guests once and for all.

If it's to be an individual sport then come up with some proper classes like other motor sport & run decent championship events.

Whichever it decides the machinery, the track surfaces and the presentation need a radical rethink.

Sums it up perfectly for me.

It could actually be both things if they were done properly.  But what it can't be is individual riders trying to earn as much as they can from whatever team masquerading as a team sport.  Which is what it has become.

But that's the crux of it.  How do you go from the current situation where the pool of riders are in two leagues and guesting earning from 50 plus fixtures to restricting them to say 30 fixtures if there was one big league.  It's a 40% pay cut.  Or it's £8 more on the entrance fee. The numbers don't add up anymore.

I've said for ages that the pay per points is counter productive in a team scenario. Does not incentivise team riding which is why it no longer exists. Why not have a purse for each heat (different values depending on which heat it is i.e. £200 for heat two £1,000 for heat 15). The purse is split between the teams based on the heat result (50:50 for a 3-3, 70:30 for a 4-2 and 90:10 for a 5-1). If you're a heat winner in a £1,000 heat you earn £500 in a 3-3, £525 in a 4-2 and £540 in a 5-1.

Even promote it in that way.  I guess back in the day discussing money was frowned upon (probably because of the unfair class system in this country but that's a different debate) but now the reality is everything is about money. So why not embrace it. The obvious problem is how many people would be impressed by a £1,000 prize pot (just using that for illustrative purposes).  I guess there's nothing wrong in promoting it as a £10,000 heat, just not mentioning there was a £9,000 entry fee .

The point is you can see how it would promote team riding and teamwork which would hopefully improve the on track product. A different dynamic.

Of course it still doesn't get you away from the problem of reducing the riders earning capacity as a result of reducing the number of meetings they can ride in.

[Trees 2,814]

3 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

Barry

from what I have seen & read you're doing a fantastic job in not only promoting speedway but also shaking up the format.

It would be great to see the Isle of Wight promotion put in charge of UK speedway and to see what you could achieve.

You're certainly light years ahead of the current BSPA who seem to love quotes that compare there business to modern day hunting or the smell of cooking oil.

Keep up the great work.

 

I'd like to see what Barry could do as a Premiership promoter with meetings April-September or even Championship speedway. Would the worldwide sponsors cover the costs? 

I think if Premiership, Championship and NL promoters only had to promote a few summer shows it would be a piece of cake!

I don't want my club going this way 100%, I want league racing with the best riders involved possible. Yeah I'd like a few initiatives that Barry offers but when our promoter is trying to get the meeting done and dusted by 9/9.30pm on a chilly school night in April it's a different kettle of fish to August school holidays!

[barrybishop 896]

1 hour ago, Trees said:

I'd like to see what Barry could do as a Premiership promoter with meetings April-September or even Championship speedway. Would the worldwide sponsors cover the costs? 

I think if Premiership, Championship and NL promoters only had to promote a few summer shows it would be a piece of cake!

I don't want my club going this way 100%, I want league racing with the best riders involved possible. Yeah I'd like a few initiatives that Barry offers but when our promoter is trying to get the meeting done and dusted by 9/9.30pm on a chilly school night in April it's a different kettle of fish to August school holidays!

I am sorry but I dont know why you are going for me, and putting everything down about what we are achieving on the island and saying its a piece of cake.. its anything but a piece of cake. I could detail plenty of negatives about league racing having attended plenty of AGMs over the year but I choose to promote the SPORT in general as well as what we do on the island. Negativity is rotting the sport and it seems to me that you are putting me down because you are jealous of what we do and how we promote.

 

Look, it's OK that you love KL and think what we are doing is awful - a side show - although I dont thinkg the riders we have inclued and will include are anything like a side show.... but just so you know I love KL too, we have great people who ride on the island also there, pretty much embedded,  Scott Campos for example...  But just to remind you, we normally ran 20 meetings a season when in the BSPL, (I believe it was one of the highest in the sport)  plus speedway schools, so dont tell me we couldnt cope or manage it  We know our game, our leaue (when in the BSPL), our product and our market.... lets hope that we can continue to provide the right support and the right level of positivity for the whole sport, or we may just end up watching flattrack, stock cars and amatuer speedway.

All the best

Edited August 14, 2021 by barrybishop

[barrybishop 896]

Now I will leave you guys to talk amoungst yourselves for a while.

All the best and as I always say, keep supporting your teams, and enjoying your speedway and my last comment is.. I wish the BSPL had given us one tenth of the promotion and support we give the sport in general...but we will continue to show great photos of fun, racing and speedway - its what we do.

 

[steve roberts 9,242]

12 minutes ago, barrybishop said:

I am sorry but I dont know why you are going for me, and putting everything down about what we are achieving on the island and saying its a piece of cake.. its anything but a piece of cake. I could detail plenty of negatives about league racing having attended plenty of AGMs over the year but I choose to promote the SPORT in general as well as what we do on the island. Negativity is rotting the sport and it seems to me that you are putting me down because you are jealous of what we do and how we promote.

 

Look, it's OK that you love KL and think what we are doing is awful - a side show, but I love KL too, we have great people who ride on the island also there, pretty much embedded,  Scott Campos for example...  But just to remind you, we normally ran 20 meetings a season when in the BSPL, (I believe it was one of the highest in the sport)  plus speedway schools, so dont tell me we couldnt cope or manage it  We know our game, our leaue (when in the BSPL), our product and our market.... lets hope that we can continue to provide the right support and the right level of positivity for the whole sport, or we may just end up watching flattrack, stock cars and amatuer speedway.

All the best

If I ever re-visited the Island (I haven't been since the early nineties) I would certainly visit the speedway there...sounds a lot of fun to me!

Edited August 14, 2021 by steve roberts

[jenga 2,998]

2 lap races !  

riders will spend more time gardening than racing . 

why not give the riders extra points on their teams total when a rider gets to the tapes first, and so on .

pretty soon we will all be gardening and growing our own food . thats the only type of gardening i would like to see . wonky veg n all that. .

 

farmers were ploughing wonky carrots back into their land  cos supermarkets wanted perfect products for the customers ..

its time to plough the greedy mob back into the soil and start a new crop of non greed .exciting riders .

speedway id goosed as we used to know it ..

its a ten pund sport all day long .

[mikebv 10,243]

1 hour ago, enotian said:

Sums it up perfectly for me.

It could actually be both things if they were done properly.  But what it can't be is individual riders trying to earn as much as they can from whatever team masquerading as a team sport.  Which is what it has become.

But that's the crux of it.  How do you go from the current situation where the pool of riders are in two leagues and guesting earning from 50 plus fixtures to restricting them to say 30 fixtures if there was one big league.  It's a 40% pay cut.  Or it's £8 more on the entrance fee. The numbers don't add up anymore.

I've said for ages that the pay per points is counter productive in a team scenario. Does not incentivise team riding which is why it no longer exists. Why not have a purse for each heat (different values depending on which heat it is i.e. £200 for heat two £1,000 for heat 15). The purse is split between the teams based on the heat result (50:50 for a 3-3, 70:30 for a 4-2 and 90:10 for a 5-1). If you're a heat winner in a £1,000 heat you earn £500 in a 3-3, £525 in a 4-2 and £540 in a 5-1.

Even promote it in that way.  I guess back in the day discussing money was frowned upon (probably because of the unfair class system in this country but that's a different debate) but now the reality is everything is about money. So why not embrace it. The obvious problem is how many people would be impressed by a £1,000 prize pot (just using that for illustrative purposes).  I guess there's nothing wrong in promoting it as a £10,000 heat, just not mentioning there was a £9,000 entry fee .

The point is you can see how it would promote team riding and teamwork which would hopefully improve the on track product. A different dynamic.

Of course it still doesn't get you away from the problem of reducing the riders earning capacity as a result of reducing the number of meetings they can ride in.

The only way for me to meet the demands of the riders, have a credible league, and have enough riders, is five man teams in the top league..

12 teams, 60 riders, all getting six rides a night..

Home and Away twice, meaning 44 matches, which equal 264 rides to make your money..

No make weights, all 4 points and over riders, and a clear demarcation in structure from the 2nd Division which would be similar to the NL that was in place pre Covid..

With the IOW, that's 8 teams in the 2nd Division, maybe seven riders per team to ensure plenty of team spaces for developing riders..

Professionals in Division One and Semi Pros/Developing riders in Division Two.

Maybe Sweden and Denmark will open up more past Covid and more riders will not require so many UK rides as currently, due to it being their only option...?

If so then more chance of some clear demarcation between leagues surely? Which can only bring that much required credibility..

 

[Hilly 170]

1 hour ago, Trees said:

I'd like to see what Barry could do as a Premiership promoter with meetings April-September or even Championship speedway. Would the worldwide sponsors cover the costs? 

I think if Premiership, Championship and NL promoters only had to promote a few summer shows it would be a piece of cake!

I don't want my club going this way 100%, I want league racing with the best riders involved possible. Yeah I'd like a few initiatives that Barry offers but when our promoter is trying to get the meeting done and dusted by 9/9.30pm on a chilly school night in April it's a different kettle of fish to August school holidays!

I'd love to see Barry be able to promote any potential return of Oxford. 

[Trees 2,814]

1 hour ago, Hilly said:

I'd love to see Barry be able to promote any potential return of Oxford. 

No doubt he has the chance?

[steve roberts 9,242]

15 minutes ago, Trees said:

No doubt he has the chance?

A lot would depend on who takes on the responsibility and finance of upgrading the stadium? It's very admirable those volunteers who are involved (as I would be if I lived close by) who are doing great things but money will have to be found making the buildings/structures safe and everything else when mananging a stadium. When I saw a photo inside the main grandstand it looked to be in a shocking state of disrepair. It may well be the plan to limit  the public to areas where substancial upgrading is at a minimum certainly in the near future with plans to expand the project when things become more clearer?

[Thornaby48 48]

It is all well and good bringing in novelty speedway of 2 laps or 3 man teams etc. People want to see their 7 man team ,no guests, riding in a league or the cup. Make the racing exciting. Every race has 4 riders of varying standard, usually 2 heat leaders and 2 second string so we end up with 2 races in each heat and the first out of the gate wins ,especially on the large tracks. I feel that handicap racing is the future based on the riders average thus giving the “second string” riders a chance to be competitive for at least the first lap. This could also help to produce “team riding”  (Which is a lost art) if the heat leader can protect his partner from the attacking opponents. Surely this is the excitment needed in speedway. 

[JamesHarris 390]

Does Speedway need to re-invent itself? Short sharp answer to that is NO. Does British Speedway need to re-invent the way it is run - YES!. 

Speedway is both an individual and team sport and that is how it is successful in Poland, Sweden and Denmark. The Poles have owned it. The Swedes have maintained it. The Danes have consistently been good at it.  The British have diluted it. 

[lbw 869]

17 hours ago, iainb said:

Be kind 

I was 

[Red Flag 454]

On 8/13/2021 at 6:54 PM, Skidder1 said:

I'll do nothing but applaud the IOW team BUT how much does it cost, do they generate more income than cost or are the Thursday night activities subsidised by other stadium events/activities?

And what attendance do they actually get

[Falcon1983 557]

The only way to push team riding would be to change the points system to 4-3-2-0 but then in most heats you'll see riders settle for 2nd and 3rd, and I want to see racing, maybe this format could be used in development league racing only so educate and encourage team riding from a young age