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old bob at herne bay

National League 2021 - has it been abandoned?

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9 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

The middle tier needs to be far closer to the NDL to allow riders to progress! Even riders who can get maximums in the NDL Crang / Mulford / Smith, often score 0 at Champ level! 

How can a NDL rider know if he's ready for the Championship if scoring maximums at NL level isn't an indicator?

Whilst i agree that a sensible distance between the two leagues needs to be achieved part of that would be helped by increasing the standard of the NDL again. Ive also always been an advocate that if you are good enough you will make it. There will always be those who can make the step up and beyond and those that can't, making it easier for riders is not the answer, keeping the bar high and making sure riders work to achieve it is the only way the sport will be able to progress.

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1 minute ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Whilst i agree that a sensible distance between the two leagues needs to be achieved part of that would be helped by increasing the standard of the NDL again. Ive also always been an advocate that if you are good enough you will make it. There will always be those who can make the step up and beyond and those that can't, making it easier for riders is not the answer, keeping the bar high and making sure riders work to achieve it is the only way the sport will be able to progress.

That's what has happened to the NL this year, it's easier to score points, but not easier to step up!

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Precisely. Jack Smith signed on as a 6.5 averaged rider, given current form/opposition he is likely to finish on 8-9. Should the league stay at the same points limit he could be forced out. Should the limit be largely increased again to accommodate all the increased averages its more likely that those with falsely inflated averages like Rothery and Spencer will be pushed out. Everyone heralded the idea at the start and just couldn't see the problems coming. I guess the state of the NDL at present / future will gloss over the mess created by lowering the points limit.

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2 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Precisely. Jack Smith signed on as a 6.5 averaged rider, given current form/opposition he is likely to finish on 8-9. Should the league stay at the same points limit he could be forced out. Should the limit be largely increased again to accommodate all the increased averages its more likely that those with falsely inflated averages like Rothery and Spencer will be pushed out. Everyone heralded the idea at the start and just couldn't see the problems coming. I guess the state of the NDL at present / future will gloss over the mess created by lowering the points limit.

Exactly.  Wouldn't it be refreshing for BSPL to say now exactly ( or even approximately) how it envisaged this would work? 

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7 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Precisely. Jack Smith signed on as a 6.5 averaged rider, given current form/opposition he is likely to finish on 8-9. Should the league stay at the same points limit he could be forced out. Should the limit be largely increased again to accommodate all the increased averages its more likely that those with falsely inflated averages like Rothery and Spencer will be pushed out. Everyone heralded the idea at the start and just couldn't see the problems coming. I guess the state of the NDL at present / future will gloss over the mess created by lowering the points limit.

Some of us saw the problems. Others were either too narrow minded or short sighted to see them and pressed ahead regardless unfortunately. 

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On 8/24/2021 at 10:07 AM, Sings4Speedway said:

Precisely. Jack Smith signed on as a 6.5 averaged rider, given current form/opposition he is likely to finish on 8-9. Should the league stay at the same points limit he could be forced out. Should the limit be largely increased again to accommodate all the increased averages its more likely that those with falsely inflated averages like Rothery and Spencer will be pushed out. Everyone heralded the idea at the start and just couldn't see the problems coming. I guess the state of the NDL at present / future will gloss over the mess created by lowering the points limit.

Not everyone heralded the idea, just the ones making the decisions!

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On 8/24/2021 at 5:45 PM, Islander15 said:

Some of us saw the problems. Others were either too narrow minded or short sighted to see them and pressed ahead regardless unfortunately. 

Short sighted short termism which the BSPL have done for many years and now the Crows have come home to roost.

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The National League was a cracking product just a few years ago, maybe not being what it should have been ie bringing on riders but seems to have gone downhill this year especially in the organisation bit

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1 hour ago, bruno said:

 

 

1 hour ago, bruno said:

The National League was a cracking product just a few years ago, maybe not being what it should have been ie bringing on riders but seems to have gone downhill this year especially in the organisation bit

It was a perfect product, entertaining and brought on the likes of Brennen, Kemp, Flint, Palin, Thomas etc etc, so did a pretty good job at the development, and can't see the conveyor belt of talent continuing at that level.It was basically abandoned at the outset this year by the powers that be.

Edited by gazzac
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Increasing the gap between the National League and the two higher leagues will make it harder for riders to progress!

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7 hours ago, gazzac said:

 

It was a perfect product, entertaining and brought on the likes of Brennen, Kemp, Flint, Palin, Thomas etc etc, so did a pretty good job at the development, and can't see the conveyor belt of talent continuing at that level.It was basically abandoned at the outset this year by the powers that be.

It wasn't a perfect product for the top two leagues as it showed up all their own lack of perfection...

A very reasonable entrance fee delivered value for money,  watching riders willing to race on tracks less than 'spot on', who gave every race their all, with many just pleased to have the opportunity provided...

And (no disrespect meant), given it was the 3rd Division,  if it was a couple of contrived septets on display that you watched, it didn't really matter, as you weren't paying 'top dollar' to watch your Speedway..

And the development of the riders and the entertainment they produced was the key to your enjoyment...

It was probably "too good" an overall packaged product, which the top two leagues (which are pretty much one and the same) couldn't compete with...

Hence they took the steps they did...

Edited by mikebv
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100%!

 

My local National League track Mildenhall is almost perfectly functional and financially viable in the 3rd tier with its healthy crowds for the level they run at. I get the impression that the powers that be would rather Mildenhall stepped up into the 2nd tier but that wouldn't work out as costs would go through the roof, admission prices would have to go up but crowds probably wouldn't go up to subsidise the increases. And I doubt racing the racing would get any better cause race times would sometimes be 2 seconds quicker which would mean race times of under 50 seconds which would be a blink of an eye and make overtaking even harder! - Indeed with out the 3rd tier Mildenhall speedway would of probably finished permanently in 1992 when the track folded mid season in the 2nd Division and the track tarmaced over for stock cars.

 

The reality is in present times most tracks in the 2nd tier don't get big enough crowds to afford to pay riders a professional wage. In fact most of them would be better of racing at 3rd tier level where the crowds would be more viable in terms of the reduced costs.

 

Rob Godfrey has a short memory cause if there wasn't a 3rd Division when he got Scunthorpe going in 2005 its doubtful he would have even tried cause reopening Scunny in one of the two professional Leagues, a former failed speedway centre that failed to attract viable crowds in the better supported times of the 1980's would have been a massive gamble!

I also suspect Godfrey is a tad bit oblivious to the struggles of other tracks in the Championship because his team is subsidised by being able to have almost unlimited access to his track which means he can put on lots of practises, amateur meetings, stock car meets and the venues available for private hire. 

The likes of Birmingham and Eastbourne only kept going a few years back when they had to drop down into the less expensive 3rd Division.

The modern 3rd Division in its numerous guises has been one of the best innovations in British speedway ever since it was formed in 1994, in fact its something that would of helped speedway if it had been formed in the late 70's. - I suspect quite a few of the track closures from the late 70's to the early 90's may have been prevented had a 3rd Division been in place then?

Apart from offering up and coming riders a constructive 6-7 person team League to race in the 3rd tier has been a viable water in which to reopen former tracks and for new venues to test the water. Also competent riders not good enough for higher Leagues but are still capable of providing good racing and passing on experience to young riders have benefited from the 3rd tier. 

 

Basically all this leads me to conclude that British speedway needs to go to 2 Leagues next season. -

 

The top League called the British League will be an amalgamation of clubs in the current Premiership and Championship that can afford to run professional speedway at a level akin to the current 2nd tier. - This would be at most 15 of the tracks at present I suspect?

The new 2nd tier to be called the National League to be a semi professional League stronger than current National League but not by a massive amount. This would contain the likes of Birmingham, Newcastle, Berwick, Kent,  and maybe Scunthorpe and Redcar combined with Mildenhall, IoW, Oxford, Eastbourne, Workington and maybe a couple of reserve teams like Belle Vue Colts if they could afford to? - No foreigners except Commonwealth riders with a British League average under 5 or 6 allowed. 2 per team allowed.

 

The successful, properly run, enthusiastic  4 person Northern junior League and the Midland Development League (rename it the Southern League to encourage Southern tracks to enter and for a equal North South split!) to continue for novice riders not yet ready for National League. Forget about the still born, half hearted Godfrey/Louis Premier junior League from this year. Allow teams representing defunct tracks to enter like Milton Keynes, Exeter, Reading cause these could possibly stir up enough interest to provide the inspiration to open new tracks at these lost centres like what happened at Scunny cause again Mr Godfrey who blocked such teams from running done exactly the same thing in 2003 and 2004 before Normanby Road opened in 2005!  

 

Things need to change thats for sure but what is certain is the National League has to continue albeit at a little bit higher level!

Edited by 25yearfan
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So Berwick  have ended their season. Mildenhall will move above them if they win 1 meeting, from their final 2, or get a draw and losing bonus point. Kent can also move above them by winning all 4 home meetings! But the problem is Mildenhall haven’t got a date to go to Armadale atm and Edinburgh are still in the play-offs and KOC! Whilst Kent only have 3 Tuesdays left in Oct but have 4 home meetings!

Its been such a shortened and disjointed NL season yet all the meaningful fixtures are taking place in October and it looks like 1 or 2 might not take place at all! Fair play to Berwick for getting all their fixtures done in a timely manner if they do win the league but everybody wants to see everybody actually finish their seasons! :rolleyes:

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