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Sidney the robin

Young Brits are thing’s looking more hopeful for the future.?

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18 hours ago, enotian said:

Can't agree with that. When he arrived at Newcastle he could put the bike wherever he wanted on a track that not many can.  Liquid speedway.  Maybe red mist Nicki took over too often making him look ragged but that's his winning mentality. I think we only saw red mist Nicki once at Brough when Stuey Swales wouldn't let him past. I'd struggle to think of any more naturally gifted riders of the era. Gollob?  Maybe one for another thread...

For me regarding Gollob, the most naturally talented rider i have ever seen

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2 hours ago, iainb said:

Going back to the original question... not for Jason Edwards it's not, he's just been binned off (for the 2nd time this season) from Plymouth in favour of a journeyman from the senior league who already has a club in Kings Lynn

Binned for a double downer. Not good for moral or for British speedways future.

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2 hours ago, iainb said:

Going back to the original question... not for Jason Edwards it's not, he's just been binned off (for the 2nd time this season) from Plymouth in favour of a journeyman from the senior league who already has a club in Kings Lynn

I take your point but in truth Plymouth would've been crazy to turn down the chance of signing Lawson. Hopefully Edwards will get fixed up soon.

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29 minutes ago, screm said:

I take your point but in truth Plymouth would've been crazy to turn down the chance of signing Lawson. Hopefully Edwards will get fixed up soon.

Yes, I also take your point, there are 2 ways of looking at it. Lawson has already closed one club down this season with his wage demands and Plymouth already have Jason Crump and Bjarne Pedersen on their payroll. The club went bust only 5 years ago and found their level at NDL, now they're breaking the bank and probably won't even make the pay-offs (play offs)

Edited by iainb
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29 minutes ago, iainb said:

Yes, I also take your point, there are 2 ways of looking at it. Lawson has already closed one club down this season with his wage demands and Plymouth already have Jason Crump and Bjarne Pedersen on their payroll. The club went bust only 5 years ago and found their level at NDL, now they're breaking the bank and probably won't even make the pay-offs (play offs)

Hopefully for them I hope Plymouth have done their sums on signing Lawson and don`t end up like Eastbourne. As a young Brit I feel for Edwards, but its rules themselves that let this happen where the problem is, IMO under-21 riders should have their averages protected until they reach that age and should be in the reserve positions.

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13 hours ago, Trees said:

Where's the money coming from? Poland love Poland ...

Well the idea would be that the TV rights across Britain, Sweden, Denmark and Germay (not sure what the TV situation is in Latvia) provide more income than the current individual deals on the basis that you have four/five home nations to broadcast to.  With Polish riders involved you also potentially sell the rights to a Polish broadcaster.

Then you have more potential to attract pan european sponsors rather than the local plumber or national brands.

And hopefully, if the product is any good (best riders on the best tracks at the best stadiums) and you have a wider catchment area within only two teams in the UK the attendances increase. People still like spending money, just not on rubbish.

Clearly none of these income streams are guaranteed but you can negotiate TV deals and with sponsors ahead of committing to rider contracts.

The GP stars appear to want more competitive action than the Polish League offers and if the Polish authorities continue to drive down rider rates then it shouldn't be too difficult to attract these stars within a budget. Especially as you're not competing with another two leagues for their services. The opportunity for the riders would be Polish League and Euro League.  If the don't accept the rates the Euro League are offering then they only have Poland. Potentially putting them at a competitive disadvantage for the SGP compared to others riding both leagues.

If the riders want it and the supporters want it then there'd seem to be away to make it happen.

Or you could stick your head in the sand say it's not affordable, pedal the same old tripe to an ever decreasing fan base until it is no longer sustainable.  At least if you try something new there's a chance it might succeed. 

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18 hours ago, iainb said:

Yes, I also take your point, there are 2 ways of looking at it. Lawson has already closed one club down this season with his wage demands and Plymouth already have Jason Crump and Bjarne Pedersen on their payroll. The club went bust only 5 years ago and found their level at NDL, now they're breaking the bank and probably won't even make the pay-offs (play offs)

No Rider ever broke a Club, it's the stupid promoter who agrees to pay his demands that breaks the Club.

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27 minutes ago, Lord Skid said:

No Rider ever broke a Club, it's the stupid promoter who agrees to pay his demands that breaks the Club.

But ultimately, it's the stupid rules dreamt up that means Promoters panic, knowing that one or two clubs have a clear advantage due to splashing the cash to the best riders, meaning therefore, that they will possibly get a fair few home hammerings which could destroy their business as fans stay away..

Therefore, due to the money paid out by certain clubs, any riders the "lesser clubs" want then come with a similar expectation of money and as demand comfortably exceeds supply, they get it...

I watched a Div 2 match the other week where six of the heat leaders on show should really have been across three 2nd div teams not two, (and maybe, given the current issues facing so many teams) all six should probably have all been shared one each across six teams)....

So many Div One heat leaders DU as we are told they need to earn the money to keep riding, therefore let's accept that as a given fact, but then share them out across all the 2nd Division teams evenly..

If that means some rider control to be set up, then so be it...

As. If they need to ride in both leagues to earn the cash they surely wont turn an opportunity to DU, regardless of where it is...

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15 minutes ago, mikebv said:

But ultimately, it's the stupid rules dreamt up that means Promoters panic, knowing that one or two clubs have a clear advantage due to splashing the cash to the best riders, meaning therefore, that they will possibly get a fair few home hammerings which could destroy their business as fans stay away..

Therefore, due to the money paid out by certain clubs, any riders the "lesser clubs" want then come with a similar expectation of money and as demand comfortably exceeds supply, they get it...

I watched a Div 2 match the other week where six of the heat leaders on show should really have been across three 2nd div teams not two, (and maybe, given the current issues facing so many teams) all six should probably have all been shared one each across six teams)....

So many Div One heat leaders DU as we are told they need to earn the money to keep riding, therefore let's accept that as a given fact, but then share them out across all the 2nd Division teams evenly..

If that means some rider control to be set up, then so be it...

As. If they need to ride in both leagues to earn the cash they surely wont turn an opportunity to DU, regardless of where it is...

Add the fact that the nominated heat 15 means having two No.1 riders is a massive advantage.  Especially when you can't go for two experienced riders at reserve using heat 2 to offset against heat 13. It's a potential 4 to 8 point head start. Then if you can fill your lower order with foreign riders with competitive experience on low assessed averages, which is counter to the strategy of wanting to develop home grown talent, there's one generic formula for success.

By simply allowing only one rider averaging over 8.00 (or whatever the correct number is) per team you address the supply issue, potentially reducing how much the top riders can demand.  You make all the teams more competitive and potentially the product better to watch.

Or you at least increase the foreign assessed average to 7.00 so if any team wants one or more rider over 8.00 then they have to field genuinely lower averaged riders to be within the points limit.  Which should create opportunity for home grown riders. And allow teams the opportunity to go for a strength in depth strategy in which they always have a strong reserve pairing.  

Under the current heat format if you're going to restrict the make up of the bottom end of the team you have to restrict the top end as well.

These are fairly simple equations that should be obvious to the promoters involved in the composition of their product but clearly they don't consider it in a formulaic way but base it on their own resources and what might benefit themselves.

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14 minutes ago, enotian said:

Add the fact that the nominated heat 15 means having two No.1 riders is a massive advantage.  Especially when you can't go for two experienced riders at reserve using heat 2 to offset against heat 13. It's a potential 4 to 8 point head start. Then if you can fill your lower order with foreign riders with competitive experience on low assessed averages, which is counter to the strategy of wanting to develop home grown talent, there's one generic formula for success.

By simply allowing only one rider averaging over 8.00 (or whatever the correct number is) per team you address the supply issue, potentially reducing how much the top riders can demand.  You make all the teams more competitive and potentially the product better to watch.

Or you at least increase the foreign assessed average to 7.00 so if any team wants one or more rider over 8.00 then they have to field genuinely lower averaged riders to be within the points limit.  Which should create opportunity for home grown riders. And allow teams the opportunity to go for a strength in depth strategy in which they always have a strong reserve pairing.  

Under the current heat format if you're going to restrict the make up of the bottom end of the team you have to restrict the top end as well.

These are fairly simple equations that should be obvious to the promoters involved in the composition of their product but clearly they don't consider it in a formulaic way but base it on their own resources and what might benefit themselves.

Re your last paragraph...

What was the qualification criteria for the Rising Star again?

Lucky for one rider and track in particular wasnt it?

Just "snuck in" on almost every measure..  :D

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16 hours ago, enotian said:

Well the idea would be that the TV rights across Britain, Sweden, Denmark and Germay (not sure what the TV situation is in Latvia) provide more income than the current individual deals on the basis that you have four/five home nations to broadcast to.  With Polish riders involved you also potentially sell the rights to a Polish broadcaster.

Then you have more potential to attract pan european sponsors rather than the local plumber or national brands.

And hopefully, if the product is any good (best riders on the best tracks at the best stadiums) and you have a wider catchment area within only two teams in the UK the attendances increase. People still like spending money, just not on rubbish.

Clearly none of these income streams are guaranteed but you can negotiate TV deals and with sponsors ahead of committing to rider contracts.

The GP stars appear to want more competitive action than the Polish League offers and if the Polish authorities continue to drive down rider rates then it shouldn't be too difficult to attract these stars within a budget. Especially as you're not competing with another two leagues for their services. The opportunity for the riders would be Polish League and Euro League.  If the don't accept the rates the Euro League are offering then they only have Poland. Potentially putting them at a competitive disadvantage for the SGP compared to others riding both leagues.

If the riders want it and the supporters want it then there'd seem to be away to make it happen.

Or you could stick your head in the sand say it's not affordable, pedal the same old tripe to an ever decreasing fan base until it is no longer sustainable.  At least if you try something new there's a chance it might succeed. 

Why don't you put your business model together then and put it forward to the European authorities, there's plenty of work to put in to make something like this happen ...... good luck

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9 hours ago, Trees said:

Why don't you put your business model together then and put it forward to the European authorities, there's plenty of work to put in to make something like this happen ...... good luck

Yes I must admit that at this point in time I wouldn't have the time or be prepared to invest my own money or have the contacts to make this happen.  Which puts me amongst the 99.9% majority on here but that shouldn't prohibit anyone from sharing their views, opinions and ideas.  Otherwise it would be a rather dull forum.

You should also feel free to use the forum how you see fit. 

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9 hours ago, enotian said:

Yes I must admit that at this point in time I wouldn't have the time or be prepared to invest my own money or have the contacts to make this happen.  Which puts me amongst the 99.9% majority on here but that shouldn't prohibit anyone from sharing their views, opinions and ideas.  Otherwise it would be a rather dull forum.

You should also feel free to use the forum how you see fit. 

If you honestly think your idea would work you at least ought to put the idea to the authorities, someone may have the necessary time etc etc to make it happen?

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15 minutes ago, Trees said:

If you honestly think your idea would work you at least ought to put the idea to the authorities, someone may have the necessary time etc etc to make it happen?

I put my views and ideas together in a lengthy email to the Leicester "promotion" over a month ago, I never received a reply, not even a courtesy acknowledgement...

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1 minute ago, iainb said:

I put my views and ideas together in a lengthy email to the Leicester "promotion" over a month ago, I never received a reply, not even a courtesy acknowledgement...

Dozens of other examples similar to this with regard to many issues

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