Is Emil Right In What He Says?

[steve roberts 9,242]

43 minutes ago, iainb said:

Woffy mentioned something in and mid-meeting interview at the GP the other week, he basically said he was going to buy engines until he found a "special one". He said that they should all be the same but occasionally you'll get one that is "special". I'm no engine expert, far from it, but I do think there is something in this, how often do you see a rider winning all before him until his engine goes pop... and then he's never quite the same again.

2006 Hans Andersen had such an engine and arguably could/should have been world champion that year, he was nigh on unbeatable that season but didn't actually qualify for the GP's and came in as a reserve mid way through the season to cover for injury. He won 2 GP's, came 2nd and 3rd once... his engine went pop and he was never quite the same again.

I don't know how Speedway engines are built and what the production tolerances are, but are they really all the same? Bartek and Artem certainly seem to have "special" engines this year, it'll be interesting to see how they go when their engines go bang.

...there may be also some inner psychology at play in that some riders 'believe' that one bike/engine is better than their other?

[jenga 2,998]

its the plasebo effect ! its all in the head . 

i think i will buy another reliant robin . i have a feeling the next one will go round corners better than the last 2 or 3 i have bought .

 get back to basics and move on .

who pays for all these three wheelers (engines ) ?

i think it could well be the fans and while the riders get all they want from promoters , they dont give a monkeys chuff what the end product of the sport is as long as they are all right jack .. the riders are killing the sport with demands  .. 

the end of season AGM will be a proper comedy of errors  and where most of clubs will bail out of speedway .     RIP British speedway ..

[FAST GATER 852]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...there may be also some inner psychology at play in that some riders 'believe' that one bike/engine is better than their other?

Pre 4 valve engines we had a 2 valve Jawa from new which was just that bit quicker than any of our other engines  ,the only thing we found was the cam lobes were possible slightly different from the rest . That engine broke many track records ( the old NL) it was a special engine like any item that  is mass produced such as cars the odd one is some how better than others .   

In this age of rocket engine demand, there's  bound to be the odd special one   but I do concede that  what goes on in a rider's head plays huge part as well .

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by FAST GATER

[OGT 612]

Derek Timms once told me about a rider who gave his engine to someone claiming to be a tuner. It was a set up by some of his team mates as he was constantly moaning about his bike. The "tuner" did nothing more than polish the casings, cylinder and barrel so the engine had a mirror finish. The guy fell for it and claimed it was a lot faster than it was before! 

[Jonny the spud 2,281]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:02 PM, Triple.H. said:

IMO his big problem is when he was a gap chasing fence scraper, he followed his managers advice and opted out/placed less emphasis of/on the GPs. 

Now he's a bit older and the gaps are smaller and the fences harder, he's realised all the natural ability in the World won't keep him up with the young flyweights on rockets.

Maybe instead of trying to standardise the engines just handicap the riders like in horse racing?

Bike and rider weighed before the meeting and ballast added to the bike so that they’re all on a level playing field. Simple and effective, no flyweight will spend thousands on tuning if he has to have 10kg or more to his bike 

[chunky 6,090]

18 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said:

Maybe instead of trying to standardise the engines just handicap the riders like in horse racing?

Bike and rider weighed before the meeting and ballast added to the bike so that they’re all on a level playing field. Simple and effective, no flyweight will spend thousands on tuning if he has to have 10kg or more to his bike 

Yeah...

I'd make 'em go over the fences too...

[r8gdp 461]

5 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

Maybe instead of trying to standardise the engines just handicap the riders like in horse racing?

Bike and rider weighed before the meeting and ballast added to the bike so that they’re all on a level playing field. Simple and effective, no flyweight will spend thousands on tuning if he has to have 10kg or more to his bike 

Seem to remember woffy mentioning something like this a few years ago .

[OveFundinFan 4,140]

5 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

Maybe instead of trying to standardise the engines just handicap the riders like in horse racing?

Bike and rider weighed before the meeting and ballast added to the bike so that they’re all on a level playing field. Simple and effective, no flyweight will spend thousands on tuning if he has to have 10kg or more to his bike 

I would go along with that.  It sounds sensible to try to get to equalisation in what would be a fairly easy way to be done.

[FAST GATER 852]

It is also true that even if you have loads of power  rider still needs to know how to use it and often there has to be  compromise for starting or flat out speed .I hate the term throttle Jockey because no matter what level of rider we are talking about a certain amount of skill and a huge amount nerve is required to ride a s/way bike flat out .

At this moment it time the greatest exponent of this is Zmarzlik ,  as to handicapping IMO it is not his fault he weighs about 6 stone soaking  wet .

Edited September 3, 2021 by FAST GATER

[RS50 359]

9 hours ago, chunky said:

Yeah...

I'd make 'em go over the fences too...

And use whips?

[Pinny 2,536]

Same engines for everyone would be the way to go but I am sure even if that was done , there would be ways around it. 
 

sadly in motorsport a lot of the time, well infact nearly always, the boys with the top kit come out on top. Look at Mercedes in the f1, the motogps, speedway over the years as well. There was a stage when even Rickardssons bikes looked massively faster than anothers bikes in the GPs. 

[waiheke1 4,295]

3 hours ago, Pinny said:

There was a stage when even Rickardssons bikes looked massively faster than anothers bikes in the GPs. 

Egon Mueller in 83 was MASSIVELY quicker than anyone else. Gundersen and Nielsen always appeared to have the quickest bikes in their era of dominance.

Was there ever a year in which the world champion didn't have bikes as quick, or quicker, than anyone else?

[Pinny 2,536]

5 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Egon Mueller in 83 was MASSIVELY quicker than anyone else. Gundersen and Nielsen always appeared to have the quickest bikes in their era of dominance.

Was there ever a year in which the world champion didn't have bikes as quick, or quicker, than anyone else?

Actually though Nicki Pedersens first world title and Crumps first one or two they didn’t necessarily look miles quicker than anyone else and was more down to track craft. 
 

For what its worth, I think Rickardsson had brilliant track craft and is the best rider i have been by a long way since 1998 but there was one year which i forget where he looked like his bikes were 700 ccs!

[marko 956]

In the grand prixs money will always talk and Bartosz is small in stature he will always be quick but that does not always translate as a bit of weight could mean better grip off the start?

Domestically something has to be done to reduce costs to the riders, no one can afford to pay them the sort of money they would like to be earning, so the only other way is to work it so that a riders outgoings are less, thus they can keep more of what they earn without it being ploughed so heavily back into their equipment.

Until speedway is made more viable to both, riders, promoters and fans, things will continue on a downward trend, it really is that simple.

[LesR 139]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:47 AM, steve roberts said:

...there may be also some inner psychology at play in that some riders 'believe' that one bike/engine is better than their other?

In 2 valve days, as a Jawa factory rider, Ivan Mauger would visit the factory and have tested many new engines on the dyno. He would then pick, for his allocation, the best engines for himself, this gave him a better starting point for tuning than having the less powerful engines. Mind you having Guy Allott as the tuner helped a lot. I can remember seeing the rockers on Ivan engines being on needle rollers, instead of the bronze bushes they used in the factory, much smoother operation.

So even standard engines, straight from the factory, are not equal.

Edited September 4, 2021 by LesR
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