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Daniel Smith

9/11 20yrs On

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8 hours ago, Speedy swindon pete said:

You really think someone saying they don’t have any black or gay friends instantly gets labelled racist/homophobic do you? :rolleyes:
 

 

Must have been up all night thinking that up.

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6 hours ago, chunky said:

Oh, it's not just the British; Americans are equally at fault. The trouble is that today, opinions are considered more important than fact, and of course, while ignorance is largely to blame, let's not forget prejudice.

A couple of years ago, Miss America was won by Nina Davuluri, who was of Indian descent. Social media lit up with comments like, "Oh, we are allowing terrorists to compete now?"

People seem to have no concept of race, religion, or nationality. Everyone who looks "middle-eastern" must be a terrorist - even if they don't actually look middle-eastern. I have had to explain to many people that India is NOT part of the middle east, that the vast majority of Indians are NOT Muslim, and that they are actually our allies. And as for the arguments I've had with people about Sikhs, as Americans are totally convinced they are Muslims...

THIS is where more education is needed.

the Sikhs i know are quality, right back to when i was at school from 50 years ago.

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A story rarely mentioned about 9/11 is how all but 13 of Morgan Stanley's approximate 2,700 employees made it out of the South Tower alive, because their head of security over rode the NYC Port Authority's instructions and started evacuating immediately...

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On the day as it started I was driving to a customers house, when at the end of a song on the radio the DJ said I've just heard the most bizarre thing an airplane has crashed into the World Trade Centre. Over the next few minutes no records played just chatter about it. When I got to the house I was heading to  the old couple in they're late 60s early 70s were both reading. I asked while apologising for being a bit rude if they could turn the telly on as I'd heard a plane had hit the WTC and they were talking about it on the radio. They turned the telly on just as the 2nd plane was about to strike. I've never seen people turn white so quick. It turned out their son worked at the WTC they were frantic trying to call him, obviously due to everyone in New York etc trying to get through the lines were slightly busy. 

Their phone rung in a gap as they tried and tried again and it was their son saying he hadn't gone into work as he'd been up most of the night with the TomTits. 

Sticks in my mind even more than all the other events that day  probably as I'd witnessed those affected firsthand

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22 hours ago, Blupanther said:

A story rarely mentioned about 9/11 is how all but 13 of Morgan Stanley's approximate 2,700 employees made it out of the South Tower alive, because their head of security over rode the NYC Port Authority's instructions and started evacuating immediately...

Sadly Rick Riscorla, the security guard, was one of those who died. He did get a small 5 minute piece on the National Geographic 6 parter. Some of those staff he saved gave testimony to what he did. They felt he could have got out but he chose to go back for a final sweep to try and make sure everyone was out

 

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What tends be forgotten is that the whole Afghanistan campaign was to hunt down and bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice. 

That itself cost many more lives, but the architects of 9/11 were eventually hunted down, and regime that supported them and oppressed many others removed. Astonishing then how that regime has just been allowed to walk back into power 20 years later.

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12 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

What tends be forgotten is that the whole Afghanistan campaign was to hunt down and bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice. 

That itself cost many more lives, but the architects of 9/11 were eventually hunted down, and regime that supported them and oppressed many others removed. Astonishing then how that regime has just been allowed to walk back into power 20 years later.

It is astonishing but at the same time almost inevitable when one has an enemy for whom life means nothing , whether it be their own life or someone else’s. It reminds me in many ways of the situation in Vietnam when the North decided that they could win a war of attrition as long as their birth rate stayed ahead of their casualty rate. It seems to me that the Taliban and ISIS are very similar, either having been brainwashed by their leaders or indoctrinated by circumstances to accept their own individual deaths as being of no importance, and hence the killing of others is not a matter for conscience.

If what we have been told is true ie that the Afghan government is corrupt then that is another similar parallel to  the corruption that existed in South Vietnam when the Americans were pouring tons of consumer goods in, being quite happy for them to  “disappear “ as long as it kept the South Vietnamese on side ( or at least their government). 

The behaviour of the Taliban towards their own people is sub human and disgusting by today’s standards, but the question is what can be done about it ? How much money and how many NATO lives are to be poured into the place, especially after the Vietnam experience. 

Ultimately it must go down down as a failure of the useless United Nations who are as toothless as their predecessors in the League of Nations.

.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

The behaviour of the Taliban towards their own people is sub human and disgusting by today’s standards, but the question is what can be done about it ? How much money and how many NATO lives are to be poured into the place, especially after the Vietnam experience. 

Yes, but they're widely supported in Afghanistan, not least because the Western-supported government (such as it was) was so corrupt (as was the Soviet-supported government in the past). 

At the end of the day though, you need to be ensuring that the regimes in particular countries are not promoting terrorism and warfare against your own. The UN has a role in hosting discussion forums and technical coordination amongst national governments, but there's no point expecting them to be any sort of guarantor of human rights, democracy or peace whilst its main players or even most of its members don't even guarantee that it their own countries. 

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