Belle Vue 2022

[mikebv 10,223]

1 hour ago, Trees said:

Because the BV rider is injured (it's a dangerous sport and to give fans value for money team strength is all important) and this guy is guesting ..... perfectly understandable!  Then the spiel goes speedway is nothing like any other team sport, it's not got the money to have 'reserves' of all qualities akin to football so guest riders for top men is the way it has to be organised otherwise the team with am injured rider would 100% lose, the fans wouldn't turn up for an uncompetitive meeting, it can't survive without fans, the club would shutdown!

Just use a guest for the away leg.

Or (all hypothetically obviously), as an example, if the Aces could use Tai for home meetings only, then you could run RR away and Fricke and Kurtz take all his rides.. 

A highly competitive meeting I would suggest, with the best riders on show the most times, earning money that someone from another team would get if a guest was used, and keeping the "team spirit and ethos"..

And many guests are not down to injury anyway but fixture clashes due to poor planning eg U21 Championships ran on league nights, fixtures being planned on FIM meeting practice nights or the meeting night itself, rearranging called off meetings knowing your Dane has to be in Denmark on the date you propose to run etc.. 

You can't have any credibility using a guest system (for any reason). As you simply wont be taken seriously by media, big sponsors and fans.

So, if you want to persist with it (and it is clear they do), then embrace it, and at least make it advantageous to help the sport grow..

Winning at home is the overriding key to success (with success for many clubs not being measured in titles as "who really cares?" given the lack of any tangible rewards), but rather success is reaching the season end and opening again the next year...

So facilitate some operating model that can inspire fans to attend to see some "superstars", and by using them only once a week it might become viable..

Or carry on doing the same old/same old as this works so well doesnt it? 

[cowboy cookie returns? 746]

3 hours ago, Trees said:

Because the BV rider is injured (it's a dangerous sport and to give fans value for money team strength is all important) and this guy is guesting ..... perfectly understandable!  Then the spiel goes speedway is nothing like any other team sport, it's not got the money to have 'reserves' of all qualities akin to football so guest riders for top men is the way it has to be organised otherwise the team with am injured rider would 100% lose, the fans wouldn't turn up for an uncompetitive meeting, it can't survive without fans, the club would shutdown!

Oh defending a rule once again that does loads of damage to the sport!

[ljriley90 47]

4 hours ago, mikebv said:

Just use a guest for the away leg.

Or (all hypothetically obviously), as an example, if the Aces could use Tai for home meetings only, then you could run RR away and Fricke and Kurtz take all his rides.. 

A highly competitive meeting I would suggest, with the best riders on show the most times, earning money that someone from another team would get if a guest was used, and keeping the "team spirit and ethos"..

And many guests are not down to injury anyway but fixture clashes due to poor planning eg U21 Championships ran on league nights, fixtures being planned on FIM meeting practice nights or the meeting night itself, rearranging called off meetings knowing your Dane has to be in Denmark on the date you propose to run etc.. 

You can't have any credibility using a guest system (for any reason). As you simply wont be taken seriously by media, big sponsors and fans.

So, if you want to persist with it (and it is clear they do), then embrace it, and at least make it advantageous to help the sport grow..

Winning at home is the overriding key to success (with success for many clubs not being measured in titles as "who really cares?" given the lack of any tangible rewards), but rather success is reaching the season end and opening again the next year...

So facilitate some operating model that can inspire fans to attend to see some "superstars", and by using them only once a week it might become viable..

Or carry on doing the same old/same old as this works so well doesnt it? 

Points money will still have to be paid for the rider replacement when he scores points. Would it actually save that much money....

[Trees 2,814]

3 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

Oh defending a rule once again that does loads of damage to the sport!

What is the alternative if your number one or more riders are injured which often happens, go into a meeting with 4 team members and a number 8?

[PhilTheAce 498]

Blodorn states he's riding in UK. So is it us, wolves, Poole or Birmingham 

[lisa-colette 6,014]

8 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said:

Blodorn states he's riding in UK. So is it us, wolves, Poole or Birmingham 

B team..?

Wolves surely have Becker and unless his average is under 3 in a Champ Poole can't fit him in?

[cowboy cookie returns? 746]

3 hours ago, Trees said:

What is the alternative if your number one or more riders are injured which often happens, go into a meeting with 4 team members and a number 8?

The alternative is for the powers that be to come up with something credible, something that they have failed to do for decades. However there was a time in national League speedway where guests were not allowed, so it can be done.

 

[cowboy cookie returns? 746]

11 hours ago, mikebv said:

Imagine a newbie going to Ipswich a week later and finding that the Aces best rider that they had watched the week before at the NSS, was actually Ipswich's No1 rider... 

Very true, what about this.

A newbie goes to Oxford as they have just reopened. Away on a business trip hears about Belle Vue so pops along only to find one of Oxford's riders lining up for the opposition in the top division then on their way home stops of at Birmingham to find the same Oxford rider guesting for Birmingham. Then nips to Ipswich to see that same rider guesting for Ipswich against Belle Vue. You couldn't make it up!!!

Welcome to the professional British speedway leagues

[Trees 2,814]

3 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

The alternative is for the powers that be to come up with something credible, something that they have failed to do for decades. However there was a time in national League speedway where guests were not allowed, so it can be done.

 

So you have 3 injuries, your number one, 3 and 4, you have a number 8 to use, is that it then, no guests? Or could each team nominate 2 unattached riders from a lower league and you have to use them against a top of the table team with no injuries. Foregone conclusion, fan turnout halved?

The way to go?

[KIRKYLANE 534]

In an ideal world, there should be no guests.

However they are a necessary evil…we are never going to have riders waiting for a squad of riders.

at the moment a guest for no 1 if chosen or if there are two heatleaders missing is a good alternative.

[JCookie 753]

54 minutes ago, KIRKYLANE said:

In an ideal world, there should be no guests.

However they are a necessary evil…we are never going to have riders waiting for a squad of riders.

at the moment a guest for no 1 if chosen or if there are two heatleaders missing is a good alternative.

I think you'd probably have umpteen riders waiting for a squad system, but getting someone to pay for them however...

[mikebv 10,223]

59 minutes ago, Trees said:

So you have 3 injuries, your number one, 3 and 4, you have a number 8 to use, is that it then, no guests? Or could each team nominate 2 unattached riders from a lower league and you have to use them against a top of the table team with no injuries. Foregone conclusion, fan turnout halved?

The way to go?

Very, very rarely do you have so many injuries, with, in the main, one rider missing at most.. 

The main issue is that riders ride on so many nights that an injury on a Monday sees them missing Tuesday and maybe Wednesday..

Then they are back again on Thursday to rinse and repeat..

If they only rode in one division, once a week then they have seven days to improve their health, or provide the clubs with time to bring in a temp signing..

Obviously the major stumbling block to the whole speedway operating model is the 2nd Division...

All down to them wanting to be at a level higher than what the 2nd Division should be at..

Which is a stepping stone between Div 3 and Div 1, or a "retirement home" for vastly experienced riders..

The tail of the 2nd Div certainly wags the Div 1 dog...

Using the same riders means two teams get impacted though injury, so two meetings then use credibility destroying guests...

The clear issue is that to make ends meet (and be seen as a pro sportsman), riders have to race in both leagues, therefore the UK Speedway leaders slavishly follow the guest system because, quite frankly, it is easy to do..

And boosts the riders income too..

The sport needs a root and branch review as to how its own operating model undermines it's own standing amongst its peer sports and reduces its fan base..

But, as we know, it will never happen.. 

 

[Trees 2,814]

6 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Very, very rarely do you have so many injuries, with, in the main, one rider missing at most.. 

The main issue is that riders ride on so many nights that an injury on a Monday sees them missing Tuesday and maybe Wednesday..

Then they are back again on Thursday to rinse and repeat..

If they only rode in one division, once a week then they have seven days to improve their health, or provide the clubs with time to bring in a temp signing..

Obviously the major stumbling block to the whole speedway operating model is the 2nd Division...

All down to them wanting to be at a level higher than what the 2nd Division should be at..

Which is a stepping stone between Div 3 and Div 1, or a "retirement home" for vastly experienced riders..

The tail of the 2nd Div certainly wags the Div 1 dog...

Using the same riders means two teams get impacted though injury, so two meetings then use credibility destroying guests...

The clear issue is that to make ends meet (and be seen as a pro sportsman), riders have to race in both leagues, therefore the UK Speedway leaders slavishly follow the guest system because, quite frankly, it is easy to do..

And boosts the riders income too..

The sport needs a root and branch review as to how its own operating model undermines it's own standing amongst its peer sports and reduces its fan base..

But, as we know, it will never happen.. 

 

I have known many times teams missing more than one rider.

If speedway remains relatively poor and we want to keep teams reasonably level in strength I cannot think of another answer.  

Take Lynn in the 2018 playoff final against Poole, lose NKI to injury before the first leg and in that meeting MPT gets injured

 

[Shrub 1,109]

2 hours ago, KIRKYLANE said:

In an ideal world, there should be no guests.

However they are a necessary evil…we are never going to have riders waiting for a squad of riders.

at the moment a guest for no 1 if chosen or if there are two heatleaders missing is a good alternative.

They also said they were a 'necessary evil' back in the halcyon days of the 70's and early 80's, yet, as has been mentioned on the forum many times before, Ipswich under John Berry proved you can operate without guests and still be highly successful.  

[Trees 2,814]

2 minutes ago, Shrub said:

They also said they were a 'necessary evil' back in the halcyon days of the 70's and early 80's, yet, as has been mentioned on the forum many times before, Ipswich under John Berry proved you can operate without guests and still be highly successful.  

It all depends how many of your riders get injured at any one time doesn't it ..... of course if you can cover with r/r and your own riders it can work well but you need luck ie the rider you lose can be covered by strong team members, you have a strong number 6 etc .....