dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,692 Posted April 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, tocha said: The rules just say this: 010.3 TEAM DECLARATIONS Teams must be declared prior to the start of the season. 012.2 A Premiership Transfer Window opens after 25% of the League fixtures are complete and closes when 75% of League fixtures are complete. This permits changes to the team on 2 occasions, except for proven long term injury. It doesn't say anything about being able to change the initial declaration prior to the league campaign. Which by that means Allen can't be replaced as he is not injured...... He was in the declaration prior to the start of the season therefore the regulations should apply 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tocha 306 Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Which by that means Allen can't be replaced as he is not injured...... He was in the declaration prior to the start of the season therefore the regulations should apply Well that's how I read it. On a more general note it would be helpful to know why this rule has been introduced, for what purpose and why it is restricted to just the Premiership. Edited April 27, 2022 by tocha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tellboy 3,658 Posted April 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Which by that means Allen can't be replaced as he is not injured...... He was in the declaration prior to the start of the season therefore the regulations should apply So as Kildemand is injured,Lynn can take Zagar from under Belle Vue's nose Think Lynn are sorted anyway 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzac 1,013 Posted April 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, tocha said: The rules just say this: 010.3 TEAM DECLARATIONS Teams must be declared prior to the start of the season. 012.2 A Premiership Transfer Window opens after 25% of the League fixtures are complete and closes when 75% of League fixtures are complete. This permits changes to the team on 2 occasions, except for proven long term injury. It doesn't say anything about being able to change the initial declaration prior to the league campaign. I'm not a reading the rules type of person, but if these are the only rules on the subject pretty much nailed on BV have adheared to the rules as written. I only watch Premiership on the TV, but with the lack of top line riders over here, I'd still rather see Zagar here than not, even though with age past his best, but still something of a draw for both sets of fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
False dawn 2,291 Posted April 27, 2022 It's slightly strange that Belle Vue announced that Matej had been signed on Monday and there has been no news of this (including in the weekly round-up) or a new team declaration on the BSPL website. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BV66 34 Posted April 27, 2022 010.3 Rule quoted in previous posts is the key factor as to whether BV have broken any rule. What actually is the start of the season ? in my view it is the first official meeting of the new season be it Cup or League. Therefore BV have broken the rules. Surely if they get away with this, this season everyone will follow suit next year, and put a trial rider in at the start, and change it if they are not successful. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,614 Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, tocha said: Well that's how I read it. On a more general note it would be helpful to know why this rule has been introduced, for what purpose and why it is restricted to just the Premiership. Restrictions on late season signings have been around for a long time, but the big impetus for more extensive restrictions came from Belle Vue fans after Wolves signed Tai Woffinden for the play-offs in 2016. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TTT 1,207 Posted April 27, 2022 RULE 012.4 A certain Premiership team can make up their own rules as they go along if they wish to do so. RULE 012.5 All other Premiership teams must abide by the rules that were set at the AGM. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GregoryM 85 Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Which by that means Allen can't be replaced as he is not injured...... He was in the declaration prior to the start of the season therefore the regulations should apply As at least one other poster has said that allowing a rider to be signed for 28 days doesn't seem to fit with the 25% rule. He is right, and you are right about Jake Allen not being injured. His short term contract (presumably ratified as such by the authorities?) has expired though. So, is there anything written in another rule which compels Belle Vue to offer another contract to and retain Jake? What happens if Belle Vue chose to, or were compelled to, offer Jake a new contract, but he didn't want to stay? Surely there ought to be a water-tight rule to cover all scenarios surrounding short-term signings which also wouldn't conflict with the other rules? This would then end at least end all speculation, though it'd be one less issue to debate on here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2ndbendbeerhut 1,781 Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, GregoryM said: As at least one other poster has said that allowing a rider to be signed for 28 days doesn't seem to fit with the 25% rule. He is right, and you are right about Jake Allen not being injured. His short term contract (presumably ratified as such by the authorities?) has expired though. So, is there anything written in another rule which compels Belle Vue to offer another contract to and retain Jake? What happens if Belle Vue chose to, or were compelled to, offer Jake a new contract, but he didn't want to stay? Surely there ought to be a water-tight rule to cover all scenarios surrounding short-term signings which also wouldn't conflict with the other rules? This would then end at least end all speculation, though it'd be one less issue to debate on here. So maybe all riders should be signed on 28 day contracts in future... Nothing in rules to say this not allowed and then a team can make as many changes as they wish... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyOne 126 Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, tocha said: The rules just say this: 010.3 TEAM DECLARATIONS Teams must be declared prior to the start of the season. 012.2 A Premiership Transfer Window opens after 25% of the League fixtures are complete and closes when 75% of League fixtures are complete. This permits changes to the team on 2 occasions, except for proven long term injury. It doesn't say anything about being able to change the initial declaration prior to the league campaign. Just shows how badly the rules are written. Regarding the "Transfer Window" it says "This permits changes to the team on 2 occasions, except for proven long term injury." So if you read that as written, it says you can change the team on 2 occasions... but not if you've got a proven long term injury. If you've got a proven long term injury you can't change the team at all! Also what is meant by 2 occasions? Can you change all 7 riders, and then change all 7 riders again on the second occasion? Or can you only change 1 rider on each of the two occasions? can you combine the two occasions and make a double change? It's not clear. If transfers are banned during the first 25% of league fixtures and during the last 25% of league fixtures, then surely BV are in the right to change the declaration before embarking on their first league match? If the League Cup matches are included in the tranfer ban, why aren't they included in the 25% count? The fact that the League Cup is not included in the 25% suggests they are not included in the transfer ban. 3 hours ago, BV66 said: What actually is the start of the season ? When is the start of the season for NDL teams to declare? Because at the moment Leicester only have 6 riders. It's widely known that they will be adding Max Perry this Friday when he turns 15, and becomes eligible...(In fact the BSPL website currently has him listed illegally) but at the moment they only have 6 riders. Should they have declared a 7th rider before March 15th only to kick him out without turning a wheel when Max Perry is 15? Edited April 27, 2022 by SpeedyOne Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ipswichwitches 16 Posted April 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, SpeedyOne said: Just shows how badly the rules are written. Regarding the "Transfer Window" it says "This permits changes to the team on 2 occasions, except for proven long term injury." So if you read that as written, it says you can change the team on 2 occasions... but not if you've got a proven long term injury. If you've got a proven long term injury you can't change the team at all! Also what is meant by 2 occasions? Can you change all 7 riders, and then change all 7 riders again on the second occasion? Or can you only change 1 rider on each of the two occasions? can you combine the two occasions and make a double change? It's not clear. If transfers are banned during the first 25% of league fixtures and during the last 25% of league fixtures, then surely BV are in the right to change the declaration before embarking on their first league match? If the League Cup matches are included in the tranfer ban, why aren't they included in the 25% count? The fact that the League Cup is not included in the 25% suggests they are not included in the transfer ban. When is the start of the season for NDL teams to declare? Because at the moment Leicester only have 6 riders. It's widely known that they will be adding Max Perry this Friday when he turns 15, and becomes eligible...(In fact the BSPL website currently has him listed illegally) but at the moment they only have 6 riders. Should they have declared a 7th rider before March 15th only to kick him out without turning a wheel when Max Perry is 15? It certainly does show how badly worded this rule is (and many others have been in the past). Therein lies the issue. We fans can interpret this particular rule in many ways but until someone official clarifies what it actually means, the speculation will continue. My 2 pennies worth of interpretation is that the first transfer window open after 25% of all league fixtures have been completed. As this has not yet been achieved, then there is no transfer window open so no team changes are allowed and you have to persevere with the 1 to 7 you started the season with. If riders are signed on temporary contracts, then those contracts should be valid until the transfer window opens and a replacement on a permanent contract (whatever one of those is) is signed. Incidentally, you could argue that all riders are on temporary contracts as they're only valid March to October inclusive. With regards to the 2 occasions, I read this as you can replace as many riders as you wish on 2 separate occasions during the window. In effect you could replace all of your initial 7 with a new 7 (all at the same time) and then replace that 7 with another new 7 (all at the same time) during the window. However, if the 2 occasions have been used up during the window and you have a long term injury happen, then a further replacement is allowed. As has been said, a poorly worded rule that is open to many interpretations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BV66 34 Posted April 27, 2022 Lemon could become the Baldrick of speedway, with his cunning plans. After the failed plans re Woofinden & Bewley, he signed Jake Allen on a 28 days contract. This must have been sanctioned by the BSPA as it was mentioned on the website. The authorities knowing full well that it was more than likely that Jake would be replaced after the 28 days, so I assume their interpretation of the start of the season is the beginning of the League campaign. They should have adjusted the rules when they introduced the new cup competition, to make things less ambiguous, but that is the norm for the BSPA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KIRKYLANE 534 Posted April 27, 2022 It is strange that Belle Vue ,Speedway star and Discovery have all announced the signing of Zagar whereas nothing on the Bspl web site This is alarming Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,224 Posted April 27, 2022 54 minutes ago, KIRKYLANE said: It is strange that Belle Vue ,Speedway star and Discovery have all announced the signing of Zagar whereas nothing on the Bspl web site This is alarming Not really... If the Aces get stopped from using Zagar they just need to threaten to tarmac the track.. It's worked before for another team..... UK Speedway and it's ambiguous rules.... FWIW. For me. It could be that the league is regarded as "the league" and the cup has been regarded as "the cup", so the 25% of the meetings go from the league start... Or... Jake Allen was an 28 day emergency signing (in the interests of Speedway of course), which meant he couldn't stay on whether he did superbly well or not.... Or something like that anyway...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
