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5 minutes ago, SUPERACE said:

I think it's clear the league cup doesn't count.  Averages don't count in the league cup so how can they count towards the 25% of fixtures.  Also for the 2 teams that go get to the final they will then have to ride 7 meetings before a change rather than 6 for the rest.

That would be my take too. The regulations could have been much clearer in their wording though to emphasise it. Not sure temporary signings would even be permitted if it wasn't the case.

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1 minute ago, SUPERACE said:

I think it's clear the league cup doesn't count.  Averages don't count in the league cup so how can they count towards the 25% of fixtures.  Also for the 2 teams that go get to the final they will then have to ride 7 meetings before a change rather than 6 for the rest.

The averages & declarations are 2 separate elements, they do not go hand in hand with regards to 25% rule. 

The League Cup is part of team declaration & 25% rule. 

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A fishing they will go    e  i  addio    a fishing they will go .

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5 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

The averages & declarations are 2 separate elements, they do not go hand in hand with regards to 25% rule. 

The League Cup is part of team declaration & 25% rule. 

And you know that how? As the rule certainly doesn’t say that it just mentions league. 

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4 hours ago, hyderd said:

Show us where it says League CUP, it clearly says League fixtures. No rules were broken, get over it and move on.

Ha, now you know what it's like when this was aimed at Poole year after year! Annoying isn't it?! ;):D

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1 hour ago, BV66 said:

If the signing of Zagar is refused by the BSPL, they have two choices. Re-sign Jake Allen or use the No8.

They could still sign Zagar and use , after 25% of the League meetings have been completed, I make that after May 19th (Weather & cancellations allowing) and proving averages still fit.

The riders averages should remain the same until the end of May shouldn't they?So Zagar would fit anyway after you have completed 25% of the league meetings on May 19th.

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31 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

That would be my take too. The regulations could have been much clearer in their wording though to emphasise it. Not sure temporary signings would even be permitted if it wasn't the case.

That seems to be the exact crux of the matter, given the differing views of how this particular regulation is being interpreted on this forum.

As another poster has said, though, it is only the SGB Premiership Ruling Authoritites' interpretation that counts and how they want to enforce it.

If Matej Zagar's signing is permitted then we'll know a few on here have interpreted it differently from the Ruling Authorities.

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39 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

The averages & declarations are 2 separate elements, they do not go hand in hand with regards to 25% rule. 

The League Cup is part of team declaration & 25% rule. 

Are we sure?

If it is, then two clubs will have an extra two fixtures in their schedule as opposed to the other four.

Four clubs will have 20 League & 4 League Cup fixtures, and the other two will have 20 League & 6 League Cup fixtures.

25% of 24 matches = 6 matches, and 25% of 26 matches = 6.50 matches.

Surely, even our governing body, wouldn't base something on all clubs not having the same number of matches and, also, ending up with a non-whole number as the 25% figure.

If they have then will they ‘round up’ or ‘round down’ the 6.50 – if the former then four clubs will be able to change their line-ups after six matches and the other two will have to wait until seven matches are ridden.

So, if League Cup fixtures are counting towards the 25% as Daniel Smith suggests above, Belle Vue couldn't sign Matej Zagar until after six completed matches, four of which have already been ridden. So, they couldn't use him for Peterborough (H) on 2 May and Ipswich (a) on 5 May. He could then be brought into the team starting with Peterborough (a) on 9 May.

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2 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

It doesn't need to mention the league cup. The League Cup precedes the Premiership so changes can't be made until 25% of league fixtures are completed. It's not difficult to understand. 

Also Jake Allen is a declared rider whose 28 day contract is irrelevant as he WASN'T granted facility status. 

The rules the same if the League Cup Final happens after 75% of Premiership fixtures, team won't be allowed changes for that fixture either. 

It really isn't hard to understand at all

So, I presume here that if no facility was granted, and Jake decided he didn't want to ride for Belle Vue after his 28-day contract expired, then the Aces would just be left with Rider Replacement as their only option. I'm thinking that they couldn't use the No.8,  as he is only able to be used to cover the absence of the Rising Star?

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16 minutes ago, BarracudaAce said:

So, I presume here that if no facility was granted, and Jake decided he didn't want to ride for Belle Vue after his 28-day contract expired, then the Aces would just be left with Rider Replacement as their only option. I'm thinking that they couldn't use the No.8,  as he is only able to be used to cover the absence of the Rising Star?

R/R is a facility isn't it?

Didn't Ipswich use their no8 last night instead of their other reserve.They didn't use him for the rising star who was absent.

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18 minutes ago, BarracudaAce said:

I'm thinking that they couldn't use the No.8,  as he is only able to be used to cover the absence of the Rising Star?

As I was told again last night, the number 8 is part of the squad, and can be used to cover any member of the team without the need for the club to re-declare. The number 8 must also be used if your rising star is missing. If neither the rising star OR the number 8 are available, Then another rising star up to the missing riders average can be used. 

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46 minutes ago, BarracudaAce said:
3 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

It doesn't need to mention the league cup. The League Cup precedes the Premiership so changes can't be made until 25% of league fixtures are completed. It's not difficult to understand. 

Also Jake Allen is a declared rider whose 28 day contract is irrelevant as he WASN'T granted facility status. 

The rules the same if the League Cup Final happens after 75% of Premiership fixtures, team won't be allowed changes for that fixture either. 

It really isn't hard to understand at all

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, I presume here that if no facility was granted, and Jake decided he didn't want to ride for Belle Vue after his 28-day contract expired, then the Aces would just be left with Rider Replacement as their only option. I'm thinking that they couldn't use the No.8,  as he is only able to be used to cover the absence of the Rising Star?

 

28 minutes ago, tellboy said:

R/R is a facility isn't it?

Didn't Ipswich use their no8 last night instead of their other reserve.They didn't use him for the rising star who was absent.

So here's an example of the reader interpreting something different from what the writer meant - speedway regulations anyone?

When saying 'no facility was granted' I was referring to the quote I'd included of a Daniel Smith post re: Jake Allen's 28-day contract not being granted facility status.

I wasn't referring to R/R. 

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30 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

As I was told again last night, the number 8 is part of the squad, and can be used to cover any member of the team without the need for the club to re-declare. The number 8 must also be used if your rising star is missing. If neither the rising star OR the number 8 are available, Then another rising star up to the missing riders average can be used. 

Thank you for the full explanation. My obvious 'misunderstanding' came after discussing it with someone involved in the day-to-day running of a speedway club. (Not Belle Vue!!)

I'll have to email him your reply!!

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3 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

The averages & declarations are 2 separate elements, they do not go hand in hand with regards to 25% rule. 

The League Cup is part of team declaration & 25% rule. 

That's just your take, you can't have 4 meetings counting towards the 25% rule when those meetings don't effect riders averages.  I think it's clear that the cup is bring treated separately from eague rules.

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