Doners123 85 Posted November 1, 2021 Looking at possible team members for next season and scrolling threw previous Greensheets. Few questions, if anyone can help…. 1) if a rider hasn’t rode in the championahip but rode in the premiership last year how do you convert the average ? 2) if a rider rode in the championship the season before last would it be that average used ? Further on from that if they rode in the championship 2 years ago but prem last year would you use the old average or converted average ?! Any help be appreciated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,632 Posted November 1, 2021 Until the agm confirms it for 2022 its difficult to calculate precisely. The conversion from Prem to Champ was x1.5 and due to increase to 1.6 for 2021 but was suspended due to Covid delays. The original plan was to increase the converter eventually to x2.0 over a few seasons, but as we know plans can change.. As always the BSPL Directors reserve the right to adjust a rider's average if he's been out of British speedway for a few seasons!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doners123 85 Posted November 1, 2021 As examples….. ( I know these are not necessarily realistic but using as examples) brady Kurtz… what would his champ avg be ? 2021 prem average - 7.35 2017 chanp average - 7.65 I assume you’d times it by 1.5 meaning he would be on an 11 average ?! Or would he be on his old champ average ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeilWatson 1,988 Posted November 1, 2021 32 minutes ago, Doners123 said: As examples….. ( I know these are not necessarily realistic but using as examples) brady Kurtz… what would his champ avg be ? 2021 prem average - 7.35 2017 chanp average - 7.65 I assume you’d times it by 1.5 meaning he would be on an 11 average ?! Or would he be on his old champ average ? The most recent MA is used unless the rider has averages in both leagues for the current season. In your example Kurtz’ PL average would be converted. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,620 Posted November 1, 2021 Logic would dictate that the conversion factor should be adjusted to 1.25 (or thereabouts) to reflect the reality of the differences between the leagues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,632 Posted November 1, 2021 4 hours ago, arnieg said: Logic would dictate that the conversion factor should be adjusted to 1.25 (or thereabouts) to reflect the reality of the differences between the leagues. 'Logic'??????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,632 Posted November 1, 2021 5 hours ago, NeilWatson said: The most recent MA is used unless the rider has averages in both leagues for the current season. In your example Kurtz’ PL average would be converted. Agree. A more interesting example might be if Chris Holder was to return. His last Premiership CMA is 7.16 from when he 'left' Kings Lynn in 2017!! I wonder what reduction/conversion he would get if returning to a Championship side in 2022? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASpeedwayfan 30 Posted November 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Skidder1 said: Agree. A more interesting example might be if Chris Holder was to return. His last Premiership CMA is 7.16 from when he 'left' Kings Lynn in 2017!! I wonder what reduction/conversion he would get if returning to a Championship side in 2022? That would be nice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted November 2, 2021 With so many riders being heat leaders in both leagues you would think the conversion factor could be a pretty accurate one.. Get the mean collective average all these riders for both leagues and the difference between them is the conversion rate.. You couldn't get a more accurate figure I would think.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,620 Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, mikebv said: With so many riders being heat leaders in both leagues you would think the conversion factor could be a pretty accurate one.. Get the mean collective average all these riders for both leagues and the difference between them is the conversion rate.. You couldn't get a more accurate figure I would think.. See my post above. I compared the GSAs of 24 riders whose official average in both leagues includes at least 12 2021 matches and came out at 1.23. Only 4 riders had a ratio in excess of 1.5 ( these are your bargain signings in the PL) - Riss, Allen, Batchelor, St Worrall But 4 riders had a ratio of under 1.1 - Etheridge, Nicol, Toft and Rowe. These are the riders that Championship teams should be fighting to sign. Edited November 2, 2021 by arnieg 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, arnieg said: See my post above. I compared the GSAs of 24 riders whose official average in both leagues includes at least 12 2021 matches and came out at 1.23. Only 4 riders had a ratio in excess of 1.5 ( these are your bargain signings in the PL) - Riss, Allen, Batchelor, St Worrall But 4 riders had a ratio of under 1.1 - Etheridge, Nicol, Toft and Rowe. These are the riders that Championship teams should be fighting to sign. As close as you could get using some "science" I would suggest.. Obviously in the real world the final conversion rate will be influenced by teams already having riders signed up on what they believe to be the conversion rate that all should follow.. A conversion rate that, when agreed by all, "miraculously" allows some to then track the team they wanted.. Edit: Given they won the Premier League with six Championship heat leaders, Peterborough would be a perfect measure to use to define the (as near as damn it), true difference between levels... Edited November 2, 2021 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartinBSN 617 Posted November 2, 2021 Surely if the doubling up is to be phased out as best it can then the conversion needs to go up if anything. Force riders to only be able to ride in one league Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Marshall07 said: Surely if the doubling up is to be phased out as best it can then the conversion needs to go up if anything. Force riders to only be able to ride in one league Given how few tracks now operate it could actually become a possibility... Of course it would mean some pro active equalisation of team strengths done fairly, to ensure all teams have access to (probably), a couple of decent heat leaders.. To give the riders enough meetings, and still ensure the league finishes on time (), you would probably need to do all teams home and away once, and then split the leagues geographically into two and run home and away against them.. Play offs from the top two from each split league.. Throw in a cup comp and enough matches for the riders? Edited November 2, 2021 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartinBSN 617 Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Given how few tracks now operate it could actually become a possibility... Of course it would mean some pro active equalisation of team strengths done fairly, to ensure all teams have access to (probably), a couple of decent heat leaders.. To give the riders enough meetings, and still ensure the league finishes on time (), you would probably need to do all teams home and away once, and then split the leagues geographically into two and run home and away against them.. Play offs from the top two from each split league.. Throw in a cup comp and enough matches for the riders? That is exactly what was planned for 2020 to be fair. With the vision of pushing the conversion rate up over the years also. Makes total sense Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GWC 495 Posted November 2, 2021 Averages are now pointless in a shrinking sport where allocation of riders to teams is more important not a restrictive outdated practise. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites