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9 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Very apt...been saying it for years that speedway needs an independant body to run the sport and now the same being said in football.

Do not know how it could be implemented in Speedway but clearly the sport is not in a good place , ok a few tracks opening Northside, Oxford but the overall state of the leagues in Britain is not good

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23 minutes ago, topaz325 said:

Do not know how it could be implemented in Speedway but clearly the sport is not in a good place , ok a few tracks opening Northside, Oxford but the overall state of the leagues in Britain is not good

It's been well documented that speedway had an opportunity many years ago when John Berry put himself forward but some members of the BSPA got cold feet and Berry re-tracted his offer. If I recall Peter York stepped in what became a very diluted position of power and never got the co-operation of  the BSPA. During his short tenure he came across all sorts of problems and it didn't help matters that the two leagues had different administrations with very different agendas but that was to be expected considering the in-rivalry amongst the speedway fraternity hence the problems that continue to exist within the sport.

Edited by steve roberts

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41 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

It's been well documented that speedway had an opportunity many years ago when John Berry put himself forward but some members of the BSPA got cold feet and Berry re-tracted his offer. If I recall Peter York stepped in what became a very diluted position of power and never got the co-operation of  the BSPA. During his short tenure he came across all sorts of problems and it didn't help matters that the two leagues had different administrations with very different agendas but that was to be expected considering the in-rivalry amongst the speedway fraternity hence the problems that continue to exist within the sport.

We've discussed before, but the narrative has tended to be written from the John Berry perspective. We don't fully know what the demands and conditions were, and I don't think it's realistic to expect complete autonomy as has been alluded to.

John Berry was undoubtedly a good promoter, certainly had good if not visionary ideas on how the wider sport should be run, and was familiar with US sports practices which he suggested should been the model for speedway. However, any multi-stakeholder organisation needs a leader who is patient and persuasive, not one that quickly gets frustrated and falls out with people at the drop of hat. He also appears to have been reactionary about developments in other sports (e.g. World Series Cricket) that arguably revolutionised them (even if his underlying point about the demise of existing competitions was correct), so how things like the advent of satellite/cable television and the SGP would have been handled would have been interesting.

I do think much of his vision for the way forward was correct, but i don't think his tenure would have lasted that long in that sort of role though. Plus speedway had already started on its long road to decline at that point, so it would have been in an environment of long under-capitalisation and increasing financial pressures.

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Let’s not get sidetracked that having an independent body/person will save speedway as is often put forward as a solution, the sport already has an ‘independent’ body in place, for what it’s worth, and that’s the SCB. Now stop laughing, I know the SCB are about as much use as a chocolate kettle. But that’s the point, no matter who or what body is appointed it will make no difference to the way the sport is run or prevent the downward spiral. In addition to the sports ineffective management by the BSPA who are devoid of any bold initiative, the reasons for speedway’s decline are many and complex and there are no simple answers or quick fix solutions, the sport is an unsustainable business and sadly it’s inevitable it will continue to fall apart.

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5 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

We've discussed before, but the narrative has tended to be written from the John Berry perspective. We don't fully know what the demands and conditions were, and I don't think it's realistic to expect complete autonomy as has been alluded to.

John Berry was undoubtedly a good promoter, certainly had good if not visionary ideas on how the wider sport should be run, and was familiar with US sports practices which he suggested should been the model for speedway. However, any multi-stakeholder organisation needs a leader who is patient and persuasive, not one that quickly gets frustrated and falls out with people at the drop of hat. He also appears to have been reactionary about developments in other sports (e.g. World Series Cricket) that arguably revolutionised them (even if his underlying point about the demise of existing competitions was correct), so how things like the advent of satellite/cable television and the SGP would have been handled would have been interesting.

I do think much of his vision for the way forward was correct, but i don't think his tenure would have lasted that long in that sort of role though. Plus speedway had already started on its long road to decline at that point, so it would have been in an environment of long under-capitalisation and increasing financial pressures.

...I wouldn't completely ignore and/or reject such a proposal as for example an independant body came up with a solution to 'rescue' the sport during the winter of 1964/65. Unfortunately I can't recall the body responsible now? However is the present situation beyond 'repair'? I would hope not...

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5 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

We've discussed before, but the narrative has tended to be written from the John Berry perspective. We don't fully know what the demands and conditions were, and I don't think it's realistic to expect complete autonomy as has been alluded to.

John Berry was undoubtedly a good promoter, certainly had good if not visionary ideas on how the wider sport should be run, and was familiar with US sports practices which he suggested should been the model for speedway. However, any multi-stakeholder organisation needs a leader who is patient and persuasive, not one that quickly gets frustrated and falls out with people at the drop of hat. He also appears to have been reactionary about developments in other sports (e.g. World Series Cricket) that arguably revolutionised them (even if his underlying point about the demise of existing competitions was correct), so how things like the advent of satellite/cable television and the SGP would have been handled would have been interesting.

I do think much of his vision for the way forward was correct, but i don't think his tenure would have lasted that long in that sort of role though. Plus speedway had already started on its long road to decline at that point, so it would have been in an environment of long under-capitalisation and increasing financial pressures.

100%. Great at his job as a promoter, but not a man to bring people together. He was sworn enemies with half of his fellow promoters and his tenures as England boss resulted in multiple fall outs. Just not the right fit. Though, to be honest, I am not sure if there has ever been the right person around..and if there ever was, if they had any brains, they got out of the sport pronto! :D

11 minutes ago, Speedtiger said:

Let’s not get sidetracked that having an independent body/person will save speedway as is often put forward as a solution, the sport already has an ‘independent’ body in place, for what it’s worth, and that’s the SCB. Now stop laughing, I know the SCB are about as much use as a chocolate kettle. But that’s the point, no matter who or what body is appointed it will make no difference to the way the sport is run or prevent the downward spiral. In addition to the sports ineffective management by the BSPA who are devoid of any bold initiative, the reasons for speedway’s decline are many and complex and there are no simple answers or quick fix solutions, the sport is an unsustainable business and sadly it’s inevitable it will continue to fall apart.

All true. Sadly. Speedway will never adapt with the times....change will only come to speedway - as it always has - when change is forced upon it. And not in a good way.

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4 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...I wouldn't completely ignore and/or reject such a proposal as for example an independant body came up with a solution to 'rescue' the sport during the winter of 1964/65. Unfortunately I can't recall the body responsible now? However is the present situation beyond 'repair'? I would hope not...

The Shawcross Report.

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5 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Unfortunately I can't recall the body responsible now? However is the present situation beyond 'repair'? I would hope not...

The SCB is not really an independent body, nor is its role to be running the sport. It's there as a sort of regulatory and judicial body. 

An independent body would something that which oversees the day-to-day running of the sport in line with agreed principles, and whose members have no (longer any) affiliation with any track. Most major sports have moved in that direction, although some have mix of independent directors and club representatives. 

Ideally it would also make recommendations as towards the best way to run the sport, with some experienced financial and marketing people on board. However, a major issue is that speedway just doesn't have the money or cachet to attract such people. 

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2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

The Shawcross Report.

And the solution was the creation of the BSPA!!!!!!!!!!

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8 hours ago, Speedtiger said:

Let’s not get sidetracked that having an independent body/person will save speedway as is often put forward as a solution, the sport already has an ‘independent’ body in place, for what it’s worth, and that’s the SCB. Now stop laughing, I know the SCB are about as much use as a chocolate kettle. But that’s the point, no matter who or what body is appointed it will make no difference to the way the sport is run or prevent the downward spiral. In addition to the sports ineffective management by the BSPA who are devoid of any bold initiative, the reasons for speedway’s decline are many and complex and there are no simple answers or quick fix solutions, the sport is an unsustainable business and sadly it’s inevitable it will continue to fall apart.

Nice to read someone who understands what's going on. It's falling apart but I think something useful may come out of this mess speedway will continue but probably more semi -professional. Speedway should be accessible by anyone who's willing to give it a go. Presently that's just not possible. Unfortunately the 'Anorak' supporter has taken over and that's not good for the future.

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20 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

We've discussed before, but the narrative has tended to be written from the John Berry perspective. We don't fully know what the demands and conditions were, and I don't think it's realistic to expect complete autonomy as has been alluded to.

John Berry was undoubtedly a good promoter, certainly had good if not visionary ideas on how the wider sport should be run, and was familiar with US sports practices which he suggested should been the model for speedway. However, any multi-stakeholder organisation needs a leader who is patient and persuasive, not one that quickly gets frustrated and falls out with people at the drop of hat. He also appears to have been reactionary about developments in other sports (e.g. World Series Cricket) that arguably revolutionised them (even if his underlying point about the demise of existing competitions was correct), so how things like the advent of satellite/cable television and the SGP would have been handled would have been interesting.

I do think much of his vision for the way forward was correct, but i don't think his tenure would have lasted that long in that sort of role though. Plus speedway had already started on its long road to decline at that point, so it would have been in an environment of long under-capitalisation and increasing financial pressures.

One can not ignore the impact that Mervyn Stewkwsbury had on the sport but is best remembered for driving a wedge between the two leagues and very much a good part of self interest (Poole) was his want. His Promotion/Relegation idea was ill conceived and was never going to work satisfactorily as there were too many factors to consider which were never thought thru'.

Edited by steve roberts

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10 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

The SCB is not really an independent body, nor is its role to be running the sport. It's there as a sort of regulatory and judicial body. 

An independent body would something that which oversees the day-to-day running of the sport in line with agreed principles, and whose members have no (longer any) affiliation with any track. Most major sports have moved in that direction, although some have mix of independent directors and club representatives. 

Ideally it would also make recommendations as towards the best way to run the sport, with some experienced financial and marketing people on board. However, a major issue is that speedway just doesn't have the money or cachet to attract such people. 

Thereby lies part of the problem...conflicts of interest between the SCB and the BSPA and throw in the FIM and ACU for good measure. Often a lack of co-operation/communication between the authorities and personal agendas.

Edited by steve roberts

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What happened to the tie up with that promotion company that the BSPL had prior to covid ?, It was run by a young lady if i recall Top Hat Promotions or something like that.

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the changes recommended by Shawcross were accepted but that was against a backdrop of crowds 10x what they are now, kind of made things easier to swallow. Going to one league and potentially losing 'stars' doesn't sit well nowadays. However, in my opinion it could work. What it must be like seeing the same teams every 4/5 weeks i can't imagine but it can't be a recipe for bums on seats (or crumbling terraces)

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6 minutes ago, ch958 said:

the changes recommended by Shawcross were accepted but that was against a backdrop of crowds 10x what they are now, kind of made things easier to swallow. Going to one league and potentially losing 'stars' doesn't sit well nowadays. However, in my opinion it could work. What it must be like seeing the same teams every 4/5 weeks i can't imagine but it can't be a recipe for bums on seats (or crumbling terraces)

....what the sport needs is a "Mike Parker" type of adminstrator who had forsight back in the sixties but again wasn't everyone's cup of tea (Reg Fearman!) which is always going to prove contentious whoever is put in charge where personal interests come into play.

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