Terry Betts vs Malcolm Simmons

[iris123 20,922]

19 hours ago, falcace said:

England		50		Australia		28
	1 Ray Wilson ©	2 , 2 , 3 , 1	8		1 Phil Crump	3 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2	13
	2 Martin Ashby	1', 1', 1 , 2'	5 + 3		2 Bob Valentine	0 , 1', 2', 1 , 0	4 + 2
	3 Peter Collins	3 , 2', 2 , 1	8 + 1		3 John Boulger ©	1 , 3 , 0 , 0 , R	4
	4 Dave Jessup	2', 0 , 2', 3	7 + 2		4 Phil Herne	0 , 0 , - , -	0
	5 John Louis	3 , 3 , 3 , 3	12		5 Billy Sanders	1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 2	6
	6 Malcolm Simmons	3 , 2', 3	8 + 1		6 Garry Middleton	R , 0 , -	0
	7 Terry Betts	2', 0 , 0	2 + 1		7 Bob Humphreys	1 , 0 , -	1
	Against possibly the strongest England team of all time, Australia had little chance of victory but often outgated the home country. But Crump received little support from both ex-Leicester rider Boulger and Sanders

Saw this on the excellent info site www.internationalspeedway.co.uk with quite a big statement thrown in over this being the strongest England team of all-time at an international match at Leicester in 1975. But you know what, it probably was. All world class and all at - or very near - their peak. Useful reserve pairing too. 

Well i saw the excellent England v Poland meeting at Hackney the year before with basically the same team.....Barry Thomas of course in for his home track knowledge. When England 5-1'd Poland each and every heat apart from one

Edited November 22, 2021 by iris123

[steve roberts 9,242]

5 hours ago, E I Addio said:

The thing that amazes me in most of these discussions is why Bob Kirby never really cut it at the highest level. An outstanding and consistent rider  for years at league level  and more than a match for the  England stars, yet he never really seemed to perform at his best in England colours.
 

Remember Bob Kilby joning the "Rebels" in a complicated move involving himself Garry Middleton and Tony Lomas in 1973. Prior to joining Oxford he received a nasty knee injury when involved in a crash with Chris Pusey. When he moved to Cowley he showed only glimpses of his previous form before he had to admit defeat and have surgery done. In 1974 he got back to some sort of form but never reached the heights of 1972 although he put in further sterling service after he moved back to Swindon...and Oxford were 'done out' of a transfer fee in the process!

[Bruiser 120]

I only started going in 1978 so probably saw the best of Simmons and worst of Betts as obviously Betts was well on the slide by then….so in my era it was definitely Simmons but I’d like to have seen Betts earlier on

[Chadster 221]

On 11/21/2021 at 6:20 PM, E I Addio said:

 

However the period you are referring to we have to take into account the fact that in those days the Number 1 only faced the opposing number 1 once while the other heatleaders faced them twice, and this could well affect averages. Terry had i5 written into his contract at KL that he would always ride Number 1.

 

According to the Speedway Researcher, the first season when Terry Betts rode regularly at number 1 for Kings Lynn was 1970, when his average was lower than 1969 when he started the season at 3 and ended it at 5. So much for number 1 being the easier position.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Chadster

[E I Addio 15,841]

8 minutes ago, Chadster said:

According to the Speedway Researcher, the first season when Terry Betts rode regularly at number 1 for Kings Lynn was 1970, which is lower than 1969 when he started the season at 3 and ended it at 5.

I took the information from Malcolm Simmons himself when interviewed on his DVD . I can only presume he was talking about the period when Terry became the regular No1.

[Chadster 221]

23 hours ago, E I Addio said:

I took the information from Malcolm Simmons himself when interviewed on his DVD . I can only presume he was talking about the period when Terry became the regular No1.

Must be the case. I seem to recall reading in Backtrack that Betts said his own career improved after Colin Pratt was forced to retire and he then helped Betts to improve his engines and certainly the figures show that from about 1971 his average really took off.

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

Both great riders loved Betts great rider gutsy, Classy. approachable for the fans he  also  helped Mike Lee along the road to but did love Simmo at Poole.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Sidney the robin

[E I Addio 15,841]

1 hour ago, Chadster said:

Must be the case. I seem to recall reading in Backtrack that Betts said his own career improved after Colin Pratt was forced to retire and he then helped Betts to improve his engines and certainly the figures show that from about 1971 his average really took off.

Yes I read some thing similar but I think it might have been in Classic Speedway . I remember him saying how meticulous Prattie was when he was with Hackney and lived near Betsy . He totally stripped and rebuIlt his clutch before every home meeting and always got to Hackney early so he could make sure Len Silver prepared it the way he wanted it with a good line round the inside.

Colin Pratt is another one that like Bob Kirby I don’t know why he didn’t to better at the highest level. He was certainly one of the great talents of .the era.

[Chadster 221]

21 hours ago, E I Addio said:

 

Colin Pratt is another one that like Bob Kirby I don’t know why he didn’t to better at the highest level. He was certainly one of the great talents of .the era.

Agree. His record in the first 4 seasons of the BL was top class and he reached the World Final in 1967. However he dropped about 2 points on his average in 1969 and was at about a similar standard when he went to Cradley in 1970. Sadly, Lokeren meant that we never found out if he could ride himself out of this dip in form.

[Garry1603 353]

I think that there's no doubt that Simmo was the better rider (certainly in individual meetings) but Betts was the better team man. I think given the choice, if I were a promoter, I'd rather have had the latter.

[Midland Red 2,383]

Agree that Simmo was the better rider, but always thought that Bettsy was a better watch

[GavinCaney 2]

While I never saw either ride, my grandad always said Betts was the No.1

Judging by what the great man said himself recently about his rivalry with Simmo, he agrees - even if he concedes his rival and mate has much more natural talent than he did.

I wish I'd have been around during the golden era