Birmingham Brummies 2022

[uk_martin 1,606]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:14 PM, Gerbat1875 said:

The Joe Thurley memorial, it was never run again despite the promotion at the time saying Joe's name would be honoured annually

I heard the perspective of this from Joe Thurley's widdow. The name was abused as a cheap publicity stunt. The trophy was supposed to have been on display in a glass cabinet at the stadium, and as was said, there was supposed to be an annual event to compete for the trophy too...it never happened.

Hence my enquiry about whether the "Alan Grahame" event is anything else other than yet another name from Birmingham's relatable history being taken in vain.

[Sotonian 609]

23 hours ago, Gerbat1875 said:

What happened to things like the test matches which were run as a test series in the 70s, you know like Great Britain v Czechoslovakia, Australasia etc, remember seeing a few of them in the 70s, did we not pick up Phil Herne from matches like that, there is lots of stuff that can be resurrected in my opinion, I know the world final qualifications were brilliant, I used to love the inter-continental final at White City, you had stuff like British qualifiers where you had to qualify for the final, now it's all invitational, which is wrong in my opinion, you will never get a shock world champion anymore like syzackiel in 1973, all because the grand prix is the selected few, throw in a couple of wildcards, but generally unless someone is retired or seriously injured its basically the same field year in year out, people get bored, speedway needs a massive shake up in this country, our BSPA is killing the sport in the UK, it needs to give the fans something to attach to, but unfortunately the rules don't allow it, get rid of the play-offs, why can a team finishing 6th out of 10 have a chance of being league champions, a team finishing 6th is a failure, its finished below half way, champions to me are being Number 1 in the league standings, its bizarre, imagine the out cry if Man C or Liverpool won the PL and then had a shed load of injuries and lost a play off final to West ham/wolves etc by a dodgy decision, it don't make sense. 

Comparing speedway (or any other sport) to football makes little sense. Most other sports have play-offs.

[Gerbat1875 78]

25 minutes ago, Sotonian said:

Comparing speedway (or any other sport) to football makes little sense. Most other sports have play-offs.

I know they do, but in my opinion it's wrong, whether it be speedway, football, rugby or anything else, my point was say a team went unbeaten for all the league campaign suddenly had a major health, or injury crisis and had to race a meeting with only guest bookings who were put together last minute to satisfy a TV schedule, and this team lost, it's not right, I was not comparing it to football I was pointing out a scenario which would not be allowed to happen in any other sport other than speedway. Speedway rules are a joke in the UK and need to be re-written, only then can it move on for the better, the people running the BSPA now are only in it for themselves to make a pocket lining few quid from the TV companies 

 

[Gerbat1875 78]

1 hour ago, uk_martin said:

I heard the perspective of this from Joe Thurley's widdow. The name was abused as a cheap publicity stunt. The trophy was supposed to have been on display in a glass cabinet at the stadium, and as was said, there was supposed to be an annual event to compete for the trophy too...it never happened.

Hence my enquiry about whether the "Alan Grahame" event is anything else other than yet another name from Birmingham's relatable history being taken in vain.

I knew Alan most of my childhood and adult life from growing up in Kingstanding, and also when he had his own shop in Erdington. Alan would be appalled if his name was being used as a publicity stunt, he would want any moneys raised to go to a charity which suited a lot of good causes. Joe Thurley was a well respected man at Birmingham and without him in the 1970s there would be no Birmingham Speedway even today and he even was helping out at the reopening in 2007.Joe's name should be honoured at Birmingham but for some reason his name and memory are not even recognised in fact its been dumped in the bin(shame on Birmingham) it's a shame because no one is more befitting of a memorial at Birmingham than Joe.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Gerbat1875

[HGould 2,213]

42 minutes ago, Gerbat1875 said:

I knew Alan most of my childhood and adult life from growing up in Kingstanding, and also when he had his own shop in Erdington. Alan would be appalled if his name was being used as a publicity stunt, he would want any moneys raised to go to a charity which suited a lot of good causes. Joe Thurley was a well respected man at Birmingham and without him in the 1970s there would be no Birmingham Speedway even today and he even was helping out at the reopening in 2007.Joe's name should be honoured at Birmingham but for some reason his name and memory are not even recognised in fact its been dumped in the bin(shame on Birmingham) it's a shame because no one is more befitting of a memorial at Birmingham than Joe.

I agree. 

Alan battled non hodgkiss lymphoma I believe to be the precise condition from the mid 80s possibly earlier when at Cradley

I recall he suffered from fatigue and got an early diagnosis. 

Whilst obviously Brummies will need to cover all their costs for staging, hopefully any ner profit could go to charities of Diane and the families choosing. 

[lbw 869]

I'm watching the Commonwealth Games and doesn't the Alexander Stadium look very impressive especially with it being full approx 30,000. Now am i getting fanciful ideas but to me that stadium would be perfect as an option for a proposed second British Grand Prix and they could hold the SGP2 just round the corner at Birmingham speedway.

Even after taking out the temporary stands out on the corners the capacity is stil 18,000 which may be more suitable for a speedway size crowd.

Won't hold me breath tho.

 

 

[HGould 2,213]

21 minutes ago, Turnip said:

I'm watching the Commonwealth Games and doesn't the Alexander Stadium look very impressive especially with it being full approx 30,000. Now am i getting fanciful ideas but to me that stadium would be perfect as an option for a proposed second British Grand Prix and they could hold the SGP2 just round the corner at Birmingham speedway.

Even after taking out the temporary stands out on the corners the capacity is stil 18,000 which may be more suitable for a speedway size crowd.

Won't hold me breath tho.

 

 

No chance I'm afraid.

Its actually the Home base of British Athletics and has been for some years and also the world famous Birchfield Harriers.

It's a shame they are removing the portable seating in one respect but welcome in another as it will become a ready made excellent Stadium for Athletics and other Events.

Don't see where the demand is for a second GB in UK to be honest when they can only half fill Cardiff one a year.

 

[lbw 869]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

No chance I'm afraid.

Its actually the Home base of British Athletics and has been for some years and also the world famous Birchfield Harriers.

It's a shame they are removing the portable seating in one respect but welcome in another as it will become a ready made excellent Stadium for Athletics and other Events.

Don't see where the demand is for a second GB in UK to be honest when they can only half fill Cardiff one a year.

 

You say no chance but then you say other events apart from athletics?

Also the stadia, where temporary tracks are laid for GP's, are owned by other organisations outside of speedway so on the face of it I don't any difference with the Alexander Stadium.

So while u may be correct in saying no chance ur points don't appear to back that up 

I think the British GP would be better attended in a more central location like Birmingham & Bradford than being out in Cardiff. Whilst it's a fantastic stadium with a roof the GP would be better served in a smaller & better located stadium so it fills to capacity.

I went to Bradford '85 & that easily beats Cardiff.

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Turnip

[MD 1,305]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

No chance I'm afraid.

Its actually the Home base of British Athletics and has been for some years and also the world famous Birchfield Harriers.

It's a shame they are removing the portable seating in one respect but welcome in another as it will become a ready made excellent Stadium for Athletics and other Events.

Don't see where the demand is for a second GB in UK to be honest when they can only half fill Cardiff one a year.

 

They can only try. The racing at Cardiff has been poor for a number of years and the attendance possibly reflects that now. I know Cardiff is all about the atmosphere, pre-race events and the overall weekend however its the racing that interests me, and it needs to be good to justify the cost of going there, which it doesn't IMO. From 10 GP's this year, 4 are in Poland, why can't we have a second one in the UK i.e. Manchester. The SON there last year was superb, its a racers track and I would pay to go possibly along with many other northern based fans.

As it is the GP series needs refreshed. Discovery are serious broadcasters and if they want to grow their tv audience they need to have a think about the tracks which can deliver this. Vojens, Malilla and Prague are absolute bore fests and I'm sure their viewer stats will confirm this. Taking GP's away from these tracks may mean you lose the audience in that country so its a difficult call to make however year after year they deliver FTG riding rather than racing. There has to be better out there, hopefully.

[S4r4h 26]

5 hours ago, Turnip said:

I'm watching the Commonwealth Games and doesn't the Alexander Stadium look very impressive especially with it being full approx 30,000. Now am i getting fanciful ideas but to me that stadium would be perfect as an option for a proposed second British Grand Prix and they could hold the SGP2 just round the corner at Birmingham speedway.

Even after taking out the temporary stands out on the corners the capacity is stil 18,000 which may be more suitable for a speedway size crowd.

Won't hold me breath tho.

 

 

Do you know much about Birmingham Council? It took Tony Mole 21 years to persuade them to allow domestic speedway in a stadium lots may call its 'ancestral home'. The Alexander stadium rebuild has cost the earth and the locals have lost a great park too. So I  very much doubt they'd allow those dirty smelly noisy bikes anywhere near it....unfortunately. Unless someone can persuade them that lots of of troublef free ££££'s are likely to flow into the hotel and transport systems......hmmm could be something in it, but they'd have to be talking big bucks for the council I'd suspect.

Edited August 7, 2022 by S4r4h

[HGould 2,213]

21 minutes ago, S4r4h said:

Do you know much about Birmingham Council? It took Tony Mole 21 years to persuade them to allow domestic speedway in a stadium lots may call its 'ancestral home'. The Alexander stadium rebuild has cost the earth and the locals have lost a great park too. So I  very much doubt they'd allow those dirty smelly noisy bikes anywhere near it....unfortunately. Unless someone can persuade them that lots of of troublef free ££££'s are likely to flow into the hotel and transport systems......hmmm could be something in it, but they'd have to be talking big bucks for the council I'd suspect.

Covering their pride and joy state of the art tartan track would cost a lot more than stripping some turf up. 

Plus it would be an open air temporary track. 

Way too risky. 

Surely BV NSS with 15 to 20bk temp capacity sold out is better. 

[THE DEAN MACHINE 4,735]

9 hours ago, uk_martin said:

I heard the perspective of this from Joe Thurley's widdow. The name was abused as a cheap publicity stunt. The trophy was supposed to have been on display in a glass cabinet at the stadium, and as was said, there was supposed to be an annual event to compete for the trophy too...it never happened.

Hence my enquiry about whether the "Alan Grahame" event is anything else other than yet another name from Birmingham's relatable history being taken in vain.

I actually find it quite disrespectful how pretty much all ex riders are treated by British speedway, unless a rider stays in the sport in another capacity they are quickly cast aside and that goes for former world or even national champions 

[brianbuck 928]

Many present day speedway people seem to have distorted ideas about the history of Birmingham Speedway. The "blame" for the 21 year delay in bringing speedway back to the City cannot be attributed to the City Council, but rather to the intransigence of the then owners of not just the Brummoies current home venue, but that of the owners or controllers of the various alternative venues within the City which were explored. The then owner of Perry Barr Stadium, Maurice Buckland, made no bones about his attitude - he wou;d not have speedway back at his stadium at any price - and until he sold out to the GRA in 2004, he never wavered from this stance.

Hall Green Stadium, also owned by the GRA until its demolition, were more accomodating, but casual enquiries convinced them that it would be impossible to secure planning permission due to the venue's close proximity to housing. Bordesley Green, not then owned by the Council although it was eventually taken over by the authority, also produced numerous excuses for rejecting approaches to restore speedway there, both on the original track and on a proposed new track on a different part of the site. In fact, the only involvement with the Council was an enquiry about the possibility of the speedway club using Salford Stadium, the City Council having had other offers which they felt were mpre appropriate.

True, there was an initial difficulty in securing a planning consent for Perry Barr and it was at first refused on the casting vote of the Chairman of the Planning Committee, but a second application was emphatically approved. 

As far as the Alexander Stadium being a potential Grand Prix venue is concerned, the stadium is primarily an athletics site and is the headquarters of Birchfield Harriers, but is wholly owned by Birmingham City Council and it has been widely reported that the Council are anxious to justify the vast amount of money which they have spent on developing it, by finding more commercial uses for it. I don't believe that Birmingham City Council is in any way "anti-speedway" and it is my opinion that were a serious offer made to use it for a Grand Prix, the Council would certainly consider it. 

As the organisation of the Grand Prix meetings is outside the remit of the Speedway Control Bureau and the BSPL, any approach would have to come from those who now promote this competition, but the stadium is there, it has the capacity, and if they want it, they could go for it.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by brianbuck

[lbw 869]

Thank you for your response Brian, great to hear from someone who is more knowledgeable on these matters than from those who are so dismissive & yet know little about the facts.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Turnip

[lbw 869]

6 hours ago, MD said:

They can only try. The racing at Cardiff has been poor for a number of years and the attendance possibly reflects that now. I know Cardiff is all about the atmosphere, pre-race events and the overall weekend however its the racing that interests me, and it needs to be good to justify the cost of going there, which it doesn't IMO. From 10 GP's this year, 4 are in Poland, why can't we have a second one in the UK i.e. Manchester. The SON there last year was superb, its a racers track and I would pay to go possibly along with many other northern based fans.

As it is the GP series needs refreshed. Discovery are serious broadcasters and if they want to grow their tv audience they need to have a think about the tracks which can deliver this. Vojens, Malilla and Prague are absolute bore fests and I'm sure their viewer stats will confirm this. Taking GP's away from these tracks may mean you lose the audience in that country so its a difficult call to make however year after year they deliver FTG riding rather than racing. There has to be better out there, hopefully.

Very well said.

I've been to Cardiff about 14 times but the celebration of 20 years should also be it's last year.

For me it's time to move on to stadia that will fill such as Bradford, Belle Vue and/or somewhere completely new like the Alexander Stadium or a stadium in London. West Ham still as the shape of the athletic's track around the pitch. Spurs Stadium as also been m

I know, it's never as simple as saying there's a stadium, put a track in & off u go. I ain't naive enough to think that.

Cardiff as been great but just because it as a roof it doesn't outweigh the cons imo.