Big Al 708 Posted January 28, 2022 Birmingham now is suffering from having had such a chequered history over the past 10 years, that must be off-putting for riders signing for them. You add-in a new promotion with no record when it comes to paying riders and it's bound to all add up to difficulties with recruitment. In an ideal world there would be collective support amongst the other clubs to help a new promotion to establish itself, but that's for the birds, unfortunately. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HGould 2,213 Posted January 28, 2022 Whilst the 6 PL Clubs can take 90% plus of the TV money the "closed shop" of the PL will continue. Whilst CL Clubs pay too much for doubling up Heat Leaders there will be "the haves and have nots and some who try to have what they cant afford will struggle. The likes of Poole; Leicester and Glasgow have sufficient support and financial clout to enhance the PL if the PL will let them in and if they could share the TV pot it would be more viable for them surely. The best current solution is surely a 9 - 10 team PL of similar strength to now but with lower points limit to share heat leaders around and a similar 9 -10 team CL/DL with one double down heat leader over say 8 points and a lower points limit with more focus on development. More competitive racing, more balanced leagues and less financial risk to those who have to struggle to survive. When Justin Sedgeman complains of reduced points money and having to spend more on equipment he truly hits the nail on the head! I'm not picking on him but it just shows the mentality of too many riders who over-spend on engine tuning in particular and then blame the Promoters for not paying enough points money and then moan when they are paid late or not at all, rather than look at what they actually need. Maybe the idea Barry Bishop tried with the homoglated Jawa Ice engines is the way to go at CL level??. No tuning and only essential repairs allowed. Would the racing spectacle suffer in any way? I doubt it! The days of a rider having 2 Jawa 2 valve engines that would both last a season and the secong one only a back up in case of a calamity are a distant dream but until riders show reality and in some cases actually get a day job and turn semi pro the situation will get worse. 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,358 Posted January 28, 2022 17 hours ago, Racin Jason 72 said: According to his interview in speedway star this week. No offers Sedgmen seems to think the sport owes him a living,plus he doesn’t want to sign for weak Teams because he thinks they might not make the Play-Offs.He is the one who needs to get real IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,263 Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Fortythirtyeight said: Isn’t that why there’s a team building points limit ? So that all teams have the chance to be equal, at least at the start of the season . I doubt that Birmingham and Newcastle together have 1500 ‘die hard’ supporters based purely on their attendance levels last season as neither got anywhere near 750 regular attendees. No one cares who wins ? Ask the fans who support the winners if they care ….of course they do ! Yes, financially it makes little sense although if your a successful club crowds do increase in the majority of cases with Workington being the exception. My local club produces entertainment on a good track with good presentation and they have increased their attendances for the last 5 years since they got rid of the old school promotion style and got younger , enthusiastic , forward thinking promotors in. The healthy clubs are healthy for a reason. They work within their budget but still prioritise a competitive team producing entertainment that will attract a financially viable crowd, it’s called working to a business plan, many struggling clubs are simply not doing just that. Circa 0.03% of the populace attend Speedway.. Maybe double that figure (max), follow it "closely"... So "winning" will never make much difference to too many and make it worth more than ensuring all survive and grow... Tracks are closing annually meaning huge conurbations have no tracks nearby or within them... And the sport doesnt seem to take stock of this and review why? 18 tracks having sustainable business models (and as equal a chance to compete as possible will help a sustainable model) "may" help stop the rot and restart some growth in attendances.. The odd track growing its fanbase in isolation by 200 or so (a potential massive % uplift given the tiny low base to start from) because they are doing "well", will make not one jot of difference to the sport overall if you have a net loss by tracks closing down.. And using averages, as everyone knows, doesnt ever deliver equality simply due to the myriad of variances and subjectivity that make these numbers up... A max number of riders per team over a defined figure would spread around the heat leaders though and that is pretty much the key to most teams, especially in Div 2 where the top riders (Div 1 heat leaders) are miles in front of the reserves' standard.... A max two rider over "x" points would spread those heat leaders around. Currently some teams have a minimum 14 of the 30 rides per meeting covered by "good riders" whilst others have a lot less heat rides covered by that standard of rider.. There isnt much point in racing to the bottom, as even if you "win" by being the last there, you still have lost... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topaz325 1,855 Posted January 28, 2022 6 hours ago, mikebv said: In a sport where "winning" brings you so little reward, and is pretty much down to it's most die hard followers, and no more, everywhere... I would think having EVERY track competitive is far, far more important to any possible future growth of the sport as a generic entity than having teams possibly close down due to riders not being shared around, meaning home crowds drop.. Especially in Div 2 where clubs are using Div 1 level riders in the first place, and a 2nd div in any league has less kudos in winning than the top league in any sport.. If the likes of Newcastle and Birmingham do close the sport will lose around 1500 or so die hards, who will have attended virtually every week.. No team winning any league will add 1500 to their attendance every week of the season. Therefore. Another net loss in fans to add to the many other times this has happened over the past 20 years or so.. And the irony of it all is that having uncompetitive teams also impacts every other team financially as when these teams visit, crowds will invariably drop due to some home fans feeling it not worth attending.. Bottom line is, hardly anyone cares who wins any UK Speedwsy title, so the sport would be much healthier generically if the vast majority of meetings delivered entertainment through both teams being at least relatively even, and clubs all ended each season... I,m not blaming Poole just the system , running with three potential League one heat leaders in Lawson, Worrall and King. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dog 413 Posted January 28, 2022 But on the flip side, Poole is one of those teams I'd pay to watch when they come to town because of the better riders... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dog 413 Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Circa 0.03% of the populace attend Speedway.. Maybe double that figure (max), follow it "closely"... So "winning" will never make much difference to too many and make it worth more than ensuring all survive and grow... Tracks are closing annually meaning huge conurbations have no tracks nearby or within them... And the sport doesnt seem to take stock of this and review why? 18 tracks having sustainable business models (and as equal a chance to compete as possible will help a sustainable model) "may" help stop the rot and restart some growth in attendances.. The odd track growing its fanbase in isolation by 200 or so (a potential massive % uplift given the tiny low base to start from) because they are doing "well", will make not one jot of difference to the sport overall if you have a net loss by tracks closing down.. And using averages, as everyone knows, doesnt ever deliver equality simply due to the myriad of variances and subjectivity that make these numbers up... A max number of riders per team over a defined figure would spread around the heat leaders though and that is pretty much the key to most teams, especially in Div 2 where the top riders (Div 1 heat leaders) are miles in front of the reserves' standard.... A max two rider over "x" points would spread those heat leaders around. Currently some teams have a minimum 14 of the 30 rides per meeting covered by "good riders" whilst others have a lot less heat rides covered by that standard of rider.. There isnt much point in racing to the bottom, as even if you "win" by being the last there, you still have lost... One of the major issues is investment in the sport at 'lower than grand prix' level. Instead of paying riders daft money, clubs should be buying one or two smaller bikes and give the kids a taster an hour before the meeting starts. Parents aren't willing to spend on all the gear for the kid to hate it after one lap,unless they already have a speedway background. Advertise it as a free trial for kids and the parents get in free just the once. Even if they don't want to be a rider they may just become a supporter. Needs to be a huge carrot to get people through the gates, this might not be it but it's a different idea.. Apologies for hijacking the Brum thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,263 Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, The Dog said: But on the flip side, Poole is one of those teams I'd pay to watch when they come to town because of the better riders... Well many would wouldnt they? As they are all Div One heat leaders... (And therein lies a pretty big problem in itself)... The counter punch though is that many would then NOT go along and watch their home team against a visiting team with no Div One heat leaders in their ranks... Due to a great many of the fans (the majority I would say), being Speedway fans first (those who want to watch close racing as an entertainment), and fans of "their team" second, (those who still take it seriously and want to see their team "win")... With no promotion, relegation, europe to qualify for, financial reward etc, for many teams their season can be effectively "over" by June/July, therefore keeping each meeting competitive has to be a priority to keep fans engaged... Edited January 28, 2022 by mikebv 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dog 413 Posted January 28, 2022 Excellent point Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzac 1,015 Posted January 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, mikebv said: Due to a great many of the fans (the majority I would say), being Speedway fans first (those who want to watch close racing as an entertainment), and fans of "their team" second, (those who still take it seriously and want to see their team "win)... I maybe selfish, speedway heaven for me is both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fortythirtyeight 840 Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Circa 0.03% of the populace attend Speedway.. Maybe double that figure (max), follow it "closely"... So "winning" will never make much difference to too many and make it worth more than ensuring all survive and grow... Tracks are closing annually meaning huge conurbations have no tracks nearby or within them... And the sport doesnt seem to take stock of this and review why? 18 tracks having sustainable business models (and as equal a chance to compete as possible will help a sustainable model) "may" help stop the rot and restart some growth in attendances.. The odd track growing its fanbase in isolation by 200 or so (a potential massive % uplift given the tiny low base to start from) because they are doing "well", will make not one jot of difference to the sport overall if you have a net loss by tracks closing down.. And using averages, as everyone knows, doesnt ever deliver equality simply due to the myriad of variances and subjectivity that make these numbers up... A max number of riders per team over a defined figure would spread around the heat leaders though and that is pretty much the key to most teams, especially in Div 2 where the top riders (Div 1 heat leaders) are miles in front of the reserves' standard.... A max two rider over "x" points would spread those heat leaders around. Currently some teams have a minimum 14 of the 30 rides per meeting covered by "good riders" whilst others have a lot less heat rides covered by that standard of rider.. There isnt much point in racing to the bottom, as even if you "win" by being the last there, you still have lost... To reduce your reply to one sentence , you want to bring back rider control ? Which didn’t work the last time it was tried. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fortythirtyeight 840 Posted January 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, The Dog said: One of the major issues is investment in the sport at 'lower than grand prix' level. Instead of paying riders daft money, clubs should be buying one or two smaller bikes and give the kids a taster an hour before the meeting starts. Parents aren't willing to spend on all the gear for the kid to hate it after one lap,unless they already have a speedway background. Advertise it as a free trial for kids and the parents get in free just the once. Even if they don't want to be a rider they may just become a supporter. Needs to be a huge carrot to get people through the gates, this might not be it but it's a different idea.. Apologies for hijacking the Brum thread. Not feasible for many reasons including insurance, safety clothing, track time , costs etc , never mind the length of time it takes to kit / dress one kid out for a go on a bike without brakes. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dog 413 Posted January 28, 2022 I'm sure it's not feasible but it's just an idea to try and get people interested in the sport because offering free admission etc isn't getting newbies flooding in. And that's most tracks not just Birmingham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghosty 500 Posted January 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: To reduce your reply to one sentence , you want to bring back rider control ? Which didn’t work the last time it was tried. I personally think rider control did work 95% of the time! The current biggest problem in the U.K. is lack of riders per team places available. Maybe it's time to bring back second-half's & introduce 4 to 6 new riders per club to the sport with regular second-half rides. By next season you could have 30 riders in the U.K. ready for team spots. Also a couple of years of second-half's would "mix" things up a bit. 3 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted January 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, Ghosty said: I personally think rider control did work 95% of the time! The current biggest problem in the U.K. is lack of riders per team places available. Maybe it's time to bring back second-half's & introduce 4 to 6 new riders per club to the sport with regular second-half rides. By next season you could have 30 riders in the U.K. ready for team spots. Also a couple of years of second-half's would "mix" things up a bit. Perhaps a bit optimistic to think that 30 riders would even take up the sport let alone make it to league standard in a year BUT ther has to be a link between available track time and the number of riders picking up the sport. It can cost a fair lump of cash just to put a respectable amateur bike out on track without the added costs of practice fees, travelling et all. There are obviously some clubs who suffer with planning restrictions and curfews which offer restrictions but a lot of the resistance comes from within, track staff who want to get off home, referee's who wish to get on their way (or want double pay for more than 21 heats). Then of course there was the beating out of the ghost teams, groups of enthusiasts who heftily out of their own pocket were tracking teams to offer up available track time. There are still some great clubs out there who go the extra mile and offer track time, 2nd halves and encouraging development league racing but sadly there are others who do nothing but moan about the lack of available riders. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
