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TotallyHonestJohn

25 years next year 2022

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9 minutes ago, GWC said:

In that case you are advocating a form of ‘ rider control’ that will even out the riders over all teams?

That used to take place back in the day when promoters had the welfare of the sport in mind and supporters turned up whoever was riding.

Maybe is these desperate times a similar system needs to be reintroduced for the benefit of all teams - however money takes precedent now.

1000% it is needed..

There are enough contrived rules anyway so one more (that is currently so desperately required), wont be an issue..

As, in the past, some riders may decide not to ride where allocated but I would suggest that there isnt an "Ole Olsen" level of rider anymore who could hold away...

And all seem keen to ride as much as possible these days, including taking as many guest bookings as they can, so none would have too many issues getting a guaranteed seasons racing I would think..

Maximum pay rates would certainly help deliver this too, with a maximum meeting payment for every club being the same for all..

There is no point saving teams without fixing the underlying issues why they needed saving in the first place.. 

As all you do there is prolong the inevitable for "whoever" is next..

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13 minutes ago, mikebv said:

1000% it is needed..

There are enough contrived rules anyway so one more (that is currently so desperately required), wont be an issue..

As, in the past, some riders may decide not to ride where allocated but I would suggest that there isnt an "Ole Olsen" level of rider anymore who could hold away...

And all seem keen to ride as much as possible these days, including taking as many guest bookings as they can, so none would have too many issues getting a guaranteed seasons racing I would think..

Maximum pay rates would certainly help deliver this too, with a maximum meeting payment for every club being the same for all..

There is no point saving teams without fixing the underlying issues why they needed saving in the first place.. 

As all you do there is prolong the inevitable for "whoever" is next..

Didn't really work though..as I understand the designated riders for Glasgow in them days refused to travel leading to severely under strength sides. 

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9 hours ago, Jaizer said:

Didn't really work though..as I understand the designated riders for Glasgow in them days refused to travel leading to severely under strength sides. 

A different time now though....

Not as many options for riders these days...

It would take some negotiations if anyone particularly doesn't want to move, but it definitely could work...

They could follow a system similar to the draft system in the US, whereby if a player doesn't want to go where he gets picked then that team can negotiate with the one he does want to go to...

With the end result always being that the team in need of improving always get either money or players off the team wanting him, thus they either have money to purchase better players, or have an improved team from the ones taken in exchange...

The player too being happy he gets to play where he wants..

However, as I say, nowadays there isn't any 'elite' riders who should ever be able to dictate where they ride, and all seem desperate to double up to earn as much as they can, so maybe now is exactly the time to introduce some such a system? 

There are though other systems that could be used...

Maybe it could be as simple as setting a 'top 3' maximum average within the overall team figure? 

The mean average of all the heat leaders combined from last year times three becomes the figure....?

Or having a set figure based on averages that teams can only have two riders over that figure. Eg top two max 15 points...?

Having more money to spend in such a minority sport shouldn't be such an advantage, neither should team building late be such a disadvantage...

Many fans go along just to watch the speedway rather than care too much who wins on the night, given the way the sport is ran, therefore, you need these people to look at every fixture and think each is worth going to..

If they see a potential hammering against some weak septet then that is hardly likely to get them along to watch...

And it only takes a couple of those type of meetings on the bounce for maybe a month to pass since they attended and that then becomes a threat as they get out of the attending habit...

Speedway can't afford "weak teams" as those at the top don't get attendances large enough to carry it forward themselves..

 

 

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On 12/20/2021 at 2:26 AM, mikebv said:

A different time now though....

Not as many options for riders these days...

It would take some negotiations if anyone particularly doesn't want to move, but it definitely could work...

They could follow a system similar to the draft system in the US, whereby if a player doesn't want to go where he gets picked then that team can negotiate with the one he does want to go to...

With the end result always being that the team in need of improving always get either money or players off the team wanting him, thus they either have money to purchase better players, or have an improved team from the ones taken in exchange...

The player too being happy he gets to play where he wants..

However, as I say, nowadays there isn't any 'elite' riders who should ever be able to dictate where they ride, and all seem desperate to double up to earn as much as they can, so maybe now is exactly the time to introduce some such a system? 

There are though other systems that could be used...

Maybe it could be as simple as setting a 'top 3' maximum average within the overall team figure? 

The mean average of all the heat leaders combined from last year times three becomes the figure....?

Or having a set figure based on averages that teams can only have two riders over that figure. Eg top two max 15 points...?

Having more money to spend in such a minority sport shouldn't be such an advantage, neither should team building late be such a disadvantage...

Many fans go along just to watch the speedway rather than care too much who wins on the night, given the way the sport is ran, therefore, you need these people to look at every fixture and think each is worth going to..

If they see a potential hammering against some weak septet then that is hardly likely to get them along to watch...

And it only takes a couple of those type of meetings on the bounce for maybe a month to pass since they attended and that then becomes a threat as they get out of the attending habit...

Speedway can't afford "weak teams" as those at the top don't get attendances large enough to carry it forward themselves..

 

 

Limiting clubs to a top two of 15 would mean more riders needed in the 5/6 point market which don't exist.

It would then only shift the money wars to the lesser riders with most potential anyway

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Christ that takes ya back, oh that race with Parks, Louis and Rickardsson, they didn't do it justice at all, it was one of THE best races ever at Lynn!  

The whole production was downbeat, the music, everything, rain, that didn't do the sport any good at all!

Our sport has always 'lived for today', the early promoters put meetings on in greyhound stadiums etc, riders loved racing their bikes, they loved the money to be made even more and the punters turned up in their droves, easy money all round.  Everything was hunky dory.  Then the rot set in, they weren't making such huge amounts of money, they had offers on land if they did own stadiums, modern times were coming. If they'd set our sport in stone like football is perhaps we wouldn't be down to a handful of stadiums but who knows?

Yeah the SKY money was good but absolutely nothing like football millions, could the BSPA bought all the stadiums left with that money?  What should they have done with it which would've lasted till now? 

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Yea speedway in a pickle too many people in charge with self interest, but where did the big crowds go too, and how do they get attracted back ?  Just got to look at the channel 5 documentary birds bikes and blokes with Workington featured, massive crowds home and away, but in 2018 even for the last few meetings when trophies were won, the crowds weren't anywhere near those in the documentary.

God only knows how to solve it, as some of the promoter's and sponsors with deep pockets will get sick and walk away, then where will speedway be? May have to revert the 2nd league to be part time like it was in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.not having young riders wanting to do it full time with a nice van umpteen bikes and full time mechanic.

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5 hours ago, Neila said:

Yea speedway in a pickle too many people in charge with self interest, but where did the big crowds go too, and how do they get attracted back ?  Just got to look at the channel 5 documentary birds bikes and blokes with Workington featured, massive crowds home and away, but in 2018 even for the last few meetings when trophies were won, the crowds weren't anywhere near those in the documentary.

God only knows how to solve it, as some of the promoter's and sponsors with deep pockets will get sick and walk away, then where will speedway be? May have to revert the 2nd league to be part time like it was in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.not having young riders wanting to do it full time with a nice van umpteen bikes and full time mechanic.

maybe its time to close British speedway down for around 10 years or so . by that time speedway could make a comeback and all the money grabbers will not be around to drain the pockets of all who try to put on a good show for the paying public at a reasonable price 

something tells me i and many others will not be around to see it happen 

Edited by jenga
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On 12/19/2021 at 4:39 PM, Jaizer said:

Didn't really work though..as I understand the designated riders for Glasgow in them days refused to travel leading to severely under strength sides. 

But it did work, at least for the first several years of the British League from 1965. The fifteen to twenty years after '64 were the most successful that I ever experienced, good crowds, an abundance of strong British riders coming through and top riders from other countries regularly riding.

The last few years of the old National League in the 1960s is a bit similar to what's happening in the Premier League now. Ever decreasing teams competing, dwindling interest and fans picking and choosing when they attend.

Pity we don't have someone to impose their presence, reorganise the league, allocate riders and create a credible structure that could be sold to sponsors. The product is still very accessible but the organisation around it lacks all credibility I'm afraid. 

 

.

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What strikes me as quite alarming, is the fact that the internet and social media in particular have gained in popularity over the years whilst this forum is getting quieter and quieter by the month. The winter months on here used to be full of discussions, anticipation for the new season and new signings etc... nowadays it really is flat on here barring a few threads.

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just think what it would be like if fans did not go on other teams forums/sites for a bit of banter and the odd naughy chat .

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On 12/28/2021 at 6:07 AM, Pinny said:

What strikes me as quite alarming, is the fact that the internet and social media in particular have gained in popularity over the years whilst this forum is getting quieter and quieter by the month. The winter months on here used to be full of discussions, anticipation for the new season and new signings etc... nowadays it really is flat on here barring a few threads.

They're all on Tinder.

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Considering in 1965 the new British league had no Craven (killed) Moore Fundin Knutsson (retired) of the big 5 and only Briggs left.

So it wasn’t the big stars that saved speedway in the U.K. but bread and butter riders and a variety of teams week to week.

Could it happen again probably no as people are far more informed these days and the ‘mystery’ aspect of an unseen rider coming next week in sos and so teams doesn’t happen any longer.

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32 minutes ago, GWC said:

Considering in 1965 the new British league had no Craven (killed) Moore Fundin Knutsson (retired) of the big 5 and only Briggs left.

So it wasn’t the big stars that saved speedway in the U.K. but bread and butter riders and a variety of teams week to week.

Could it happen again probably no as people are far more informed these days and the ‘mystery’ aspect of an unseen rider coming next week in sos and so teams doesn’t happen any longer.

there is much to be learned from 1965 onwards to the early 70s

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4 hours ago, GWC said:

Considering in 1965 the new British league had no Craven (killed) Moore Fundin Knutsson (retired) of the big 5 and only Briggs left.

So it wasn’t the big stars that saved speedway in the U.K. but bread and butter riders and a variety of teams week to week.

Could it happen again probably no as people are far more informed these days and the ‘mystery’ aspect of an unseen rider coming next week in sos and so teams doesn’t happen any longer.

I agree it wasn't the 'big 5' that had anything to do with it really. It was how rider allocation ensured that all teams were about equal in strength.  Previously in 62 they attempted  to make it more competitive in the NL with handicapping. That really didn't work. Some experienced riders who dropped to reserve suddenly had a 10 yard start on the majority of other riders and  a 20 yard start on the 'big 5'. Ludicrous! 

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I'm going to be controversial here but a large reason for the dwindling fortunes of British speedway is the huge demographic and cultural changes which have taken place since the 1970s. The white working class of Britain which made up the vast majority of fans in the old days has to a large extent been decimated and the cultural rituals of fathers passing down their sporting and socialising interests to their sons is pretty much a thing of the past. Football in England was saved by television and the middle class whereas football crowds in Scotland (outwith the Old Firm) have halved in the past 30 years so speedway hasn't been the only casualty. These cultural changes have not spared places of leisure like pubs either and the only reason gyms have prospered (lockdowns notwithstanding) is because they made themselves more appealing to a burgeoning middle class who favour comfort over the wind and rain. Not many people from Gen Y onwards want to stand with a pie on the terracing in the pouring rain on a Friday night to attend a speedway meeting when they could be in a warm bar watching sport on the television. The only way for speedway to survive and prosper in the future is to secure television deals, or failing that (which is likely) to delve more into online revenue through streaming etc., because with the current stadia (Belle Vue aside) crowds are not going to increase any time soon.

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