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justathought

Leicester v Newcastle 9/4/22

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10 hours ago, enotian said:

Because you want to be entertained by watching two teams who have at least a realistic chance of being at least competitive.

Unless you're entertained by whitewashes against cannon fodder.

If you think it through restricting teams to one rider over 8.00 points at the start of the season results in supply exceeding demand. Which means every team might benefit from reduced demands from those no1's. The richest teams will still secure the best no1 riders and inevitably the best teams but at least they'll face competitive opposition.

Or maybe we should just cut out the middle man and hold an auction to decide who pays most to win a title? Would avoid losing money on those zero entertainment matches against woefully weak opposition.

What's the incentive for riders to improve beyond an 8 point average? What you'll have in that situation is average manipulation by riders as the ones who are close to the 8 know they'll be out a job the next season. I don't think it solves anything tbh, as powers that be must think too as scrapped it in prem

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1 hour ago, The Dog said:

A friend of mine who usually takes 5 people to a meeting gave it a miss on Saturday because they were bored with the one-sidedness of the the previous meetings. She will now pick and choose which meetings to watch for entertainment and I'm sure there's a few more like this. Not Leicesters fault obviously but it does highlight the need for the league to be competitive to keep people interested 

It's difficult to know what your friend is looking for then... The match against Scunny had some of the best racing I've seen at BP in years, if she wasn't entertained by that I suspect she doesn't like Speedway and prefers maths

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27 minutes ago, iainb said:

It's difficult to know what your friend is looking for then... The match against Scunny had some of the best racing I've seen at BP in years, if she wasn't entertained by that I suspect she doesn't like Speedway and prefers maths

I'll pass on your comments. Another 5 lost then 

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14 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I'll pass on your comments. Another 5 lost then 

Doggy, what is she looking for from Speedway?

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A lot of people on this thread talking about rule changes to make meetings closer. I don't think changing the rules is the answer, there are enough already.

You can't just change rules to cover up for bad businesses making bad decisions. they all have the same opportunity at the start of the year. Guess what, some of them are better at it than others. Equality of opportunity I'm all for, but some here want equality of outcome.  If you've built a rubbish team with rubbish riders who don't entertain, that's your fault and your business will suffer. But if you start manipulating as much as some want to on here, you won't make the product any better. What are you gonna do next, re run a race because one rider missed the start and it wasn't very entertaining?

If riders don't want to ride for a club, find out why they don't want to, and make it attractive. If you've got a poor track, change it. If you pay poor wages late, change it.  If you want to run the club better, change it. If you want more customers, provide better value. Sure we all want fantastic racing every race, but these complaints are from the same people who think the racing 30-40 years ago was fantastic with loads of entertainment.  Go watch some of the YouTube meetings from back then, most were absolute borefests. We just choose to remember the good things about the past, not the bad.

Some of the clubs in this league are where they are because of how they choose to run, there will always be the have's and the have nots. We've had wage caps and max numbers of 8.00pt + riders before, they don't work, because the promotors themselves go against there own rules within a week of signing them off. And no it isn't always the usual suspects.

I don't think the answer is to manipulate the rules even more to produce the 'perfect meeting' Most home fans will have gone home happy enough. The home promotion less so after paying out a lot of points money. You can't just bring everything down to the lowest level all the time or we end up in a cess pit. 

 

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Lets be honest if the sport had a few more ben barkers ,chris harris, and a lot less gating tarts people might turn up to watch each week !

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2 hours ago, geoff100 said:

Lets be honest if the sport had a few more ben barkers ,chris harris, and a lot less gating tarts people might turn up to watch each week !

Tell that to the promotion at Belle Vue, they've got the best track in the world, consistently produces top class speedway racing and yet can't get anywhere close to filling their stadium for a league match with a catchment area of around 2.7 million people

Edited by iainb
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3 minutes ago, iainb said:

Tell that to the promotion at Belle Vue, they've got the best track in the world, consistently produces top class speedway racing and yet can't anywhere close to filling their stadium for a league match with a catchment area of around 2.7 million people

They can when run on the right day at the right time with a good field of riders.

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26 minutes ago, iainb said:

Tell that to the promotion at Belle Vue, they've got the best track in the world, consistently produces top class speedway racing and yet can't anywhere close to filling their stadium for a league match with a catchment area of around 2.7 million people

I take it there are 2.7 million people in Greater Manchester and that is what you refer to?  As the only North West Speedway team, I would suggest the catchment area is much bigger!  I have an Ace's season ticket and live 70 miles away.

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4 minutes ago, Col said:

I take it there are 2.7 million people in Greater Manchester and that is what you refer to?  As the only North West Speedway team, I would suggest the catchment area is much bigger!  I have an Ace's season ticket and live 70 miles away.

I get up there whenever I can, bank holidays etc or "special" meetings

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1 hour ago, geoff100 said:

Lets be honest if the sport had a few more ben barkers ,chris harris, and a lot less gating tarts people might turn up to watch each week !

Gotta agree, far too much emphasis on the start!,,, 2 minute timer, green light, go. If the tapes aren't touched and, someone isn't ready, tough. The early bird and that.

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2 hours ago, Jaizer said:

What's the incentive for riders to improve beyond an 8 point average? What you'll have in that situation is average manipulation by riders as the ones who are close to the 8 know they'll be out a job the next season. I don't think it solves anything tbh, as powers that be must think too as scrapped it in prem

Very true an 8.01 rider could end up being picked by the weakest club for the lowest wages, as it's them or no team. Then a 7.99 rider can ask for a kings ransom as he's so valuable to any team!

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1 hour ago, szkocjasid said:

Very true an 8.01 rider could end up being picked by the weakest club for the lowest wages, as it's them or no team. Then a 7.99 rider can ask for a kings ransom as he's so valuable to any team!

Put the top 3 in each team as a collective, rather than any individual figure..

Then the riders who run 9 or 10 point averages can still get places, and be probably the most important signing the ciub makes given their status..

There will be those I am sure though who think "tough", and that some clubs will just have to make do with what they have..

And if any of the titles in UK League Speedway carried any great kudos, or financial return, I would 100% agree..

But sadly due to the way the sport is operated, they dont, so the thing that sells the sport the most is the entertainment value on offer, or at least a close meeting score wise..

Having such disparate difference from top to bottom does no one any favours from a business perspective..

 

Edited by mikebv
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12 hours ago, Jaizer said:

What's the incentive for riders to improve beyond an 8 point average? What you'll have in that situation is average manipulation by riders as the ones who are close to the 8 know they'll be out a job the next season. I don't think it solves anything tbh, as powers that be must think too as scrapped it in prem

money.  The more points you score the more you earn.  Decent incentive I'd say.  Then at the end of the season you get to reset the limit for next season based on the expected available riders and what average they're on and how many teams are in the league so it would be complete folly for riders to 2nd guess next years rules. It's not complicated.

They stopped it in the Premiership because there were no top line riders left. And to be honest the fact the the promoters stopped doing it is probably arguing in favour adopting it given their track record for decision making. 

Look at any successful business and the focus is on the product. If you think Glasgow vs Newcastle this coming Friday is a great product and advert for speedway fair play to you. But based on falling attendances everywhere it would suggest not many agree. Soon there'll be a 6 team Championship which, like the Premiership will improve the product but it hardly screams major sport.

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1 minute ago, enotian said:

money.  The more points you score the more you earn.  Decent incentive I'd say.  Then at the end of the season you get to reset the limit for next season based on the expected available riders and what average they're on and how many teams are in the league so it would be complete folly for riders to 2nd guess next years rules. It's not complicated.

They stopped it in the Premiership because there were no top line riders left. And to be honest the fact the the promoters stopped doing it is probably arguing in favour adopting it given their track record for decision making. 

Look at any successful business and the focus is on the product. If you think Glasgow vs Newcastle this coming Friday is a great product and advert for speedway fair play to you. But based on falling attendances everywhere it would suggest not many agree. Soon there'll be a 6 team Championship which, like the Premiership will improve the product but it hardly screams major sport.

Newcastle at ashfield last season was very entertaining actually, hence hope Barker guesting for diamonds.

It doesn't matter what you do you'll always have weak teams. Believe me Glasgow were that weak team often despite one of the best no.1s the division has ever seen in Lawson and Parker!!!

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