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steve roberts

Sending Refugees to Rwanda?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

And if you had a brain you could how stupid all the things you say are

Blocked . You're an idiot .

Edited by Phlipphlopp

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2 hours ago, bluebee said:

I am not sure this move will be a solution to the problem of large numbers of undocumented young men coming to this country illegally but I feel it needs to be tried as a deterrent. Yes it failed in Israel's case but it succeeded in Australia's. I do though think that its opponents should come clean about their own positions on illegal immigration. Do they want the current situation of migrant smuggling to continue or do they actually support an open door policy where anyone from any country can come to this country without checks of any kind? As far as I can see there are no other viable alternatives that the opponents to the Rwanda scheme can support.

 

Genuine vulnerable refugees are are a very different case to economic migrants.I do not want to see the cities of this country emulating Gothenberg.

I was thinking about the ratio of economic refugees to migrants. One has to ask where the money comes from.  The ones we see on newsreels landing at Dover look pretty well fed so on a journey of 2/3 months they must have been able to buy food  which means they presumably had credit cards unless they were going to currency exchanges at every border. Some at least have mobile phones because they phone the Border Force to collect them every time they are half way across . If they have a mobile phone or credit card they must have a bank account somewhere, and they account must be in credit. If they are able to pay people smugglers £3-5000 each they must be carrying a huge amount of cash with them with all the risks of being robbed on the way, unless they have a bank account and draw the cash out when they are ready to go.  Joining all the dots it is difficult to believe they are all as destitute as they all claim although some undoubtedly are.

Where does all the money come from ?

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

I will play devils advocates here and say that if what you state I true then the plan may just produce the hoped for result - less people attempting the journey out of fear for the possible consequences....

A guy who used to work for the Australian government spoke to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 on Thursday stating pretty much that, Australia did something similar and it reduced the number of people trying to get in illegally to virtually none. 

Not saying its right what's being proposed but that's obviously the aim. 

Edited by Bagpuss
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, E I Addio said:

I was thinking about the ratio of economic refugees to migrants. One has to ask where the money comes from.  The ones we see on newsreels landing at Dover look pretty well fed so on a journey of 2/3 months they must have been able to buy food  which means they presumably had credit cards unless they were going to currency exchanges at every border. Some at least have mobile phones because they phone the Border Force to collect them every time they are half way across . If they have a mobile phone or credit card they must have a bank account somewhere, and they account must be in credit. If they are able to pay people smugglers £3-5000 each they must be carrying a huge amount of cash with them with all the risks of being robbed on the way, unless they have a bank account and draw the cash out when they are ready to go.  Joining all the dots it is difficult to believe they are all as destitute as they all claim although some undoubtedly are.

Where does all the money come from ?

 

It's clear that you don't really understand much about the world beyond what you read in right wing rags. 

What on earth makes you think asylum seekers are necessarily poor? Being forced out of your home/country because of conflict, or because you're from a tribe that's fallen out of favour, or because you're gay doesn't mean you were destitute. Do you think all the Ukrainians leaving their country recently were dirt poor and didn't have mobile phones?

For that matter, what's your obsession with mobile phones as some sort of wealth indicator? Mobile phones are cheap and an essential tool for communication nowadays. Just about everyone in even the poorest country has one these days.

As for the economic migrants, they're very likely selling anything they have, borrowing money off anyone they can, and in some cases no doubt entering in some sort of indenture to the people smugglers. Whilst there's no doubt it's this category of migrants that need to be discouraged, the simple fact remains that something like 71% of asylum seekers to the UK last year were actually approved which presumably means they are genuine cases. 

This sending of people to Rwanda does not change the fact there are genuine asylum cases, although no doubt the hope is to shift the burden to other countries to appeal to nasty populism in the UK. 

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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5 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

A guy who used to work for the Australian government spoke to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 on Thursday stating pretty much that, Australia did something similar and it reduced the number of people trying to get in illegally to virtually none. 

Most of those people were not trying to get into Australia illegally, but to claim asylum which is not illegal. Nor has the policy really been effective... 

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/business-law/cruel-costly-and-ineffective-australias-offshore-processing-asylum-seeker-policy

And PNG has called time on the nonsense as well...

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/confusion-no-answers-as-australia-ends-offshore-asylum-seeker-processing-deal-with-png/p5t6l8jmb

 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Blocked . You're an idiot .

That's how to have a reasoned discussion i suppose

Edited by The Third Man
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17 hours ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Blocked . You're an idiot .

Snowflake 

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I didn't realise this is literally a one way ticket, even if they are granted asylum it will be in Rwanda not the UK

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18 hours ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Blocked . You're an idiot .

Based on that you should block yourself .

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It's clear that you don't really understand much about the world beyond what you read in right wing rags. 

You see, straight away, you take a pejorative stance telling me I know nothing beyond what I read in right wing rags , which actually I don’t read . In fact I don’t read newspapers at all beyond what arises from this forum.  Nevertheless the whole tenor of your post is based around your fantasy that I do read that stuff.

I might just as easily claim you get your information from left wing rags but I don’t , nor do I make such claims about others but I don’t because I don’t know what they read, except insofar as the vast majority of links you put up are from the Independent ..But off course you always have to introduce the right wing/left wing thing on the basis that you are right and that is the end of it.

Even so you go off on some silly tangent talking about Ukrainians which as far as I know are not asylum seekers nor are there plans to ship them out to Rawanda. Nor have I mentioned Ukrainians as being anything other than genuine refugees, and certainly, as far as I know not coming here via the criminal gangs that are the root of the problem.

Then you talk about my “obsession” with mobile phones as some sort wealth indicator . How is it an obsession if I mention it once, and then in the context that it presumably is linked to a bank account.

Finally my post ends with a question , not a statement of fact. As it is a discussion forum read by many people one or two may be able to sensibly answer the question raised, or least, more sensibly than your huffing and puffing based on the assumption that anyone who disagrees with you is brainwashed by right wing rags.

Read my post again and see if you can spot on a single thing that is likely to have come from a right wing rag as opposed to any other source . Amazingly , it is you, not me that said economic migrants need to be discouraged, which is not what I said at all, nor did I say there were not genuine asylum cases. 

 

Edited by E I Addio
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57 minutes ago, orion said:

Based on that you should block yourself .

Well i havent blocked you. You are here purely for amusement :D

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53 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

You see, straight away, you take a pejorative stance telling me I know nothing beyond what I read in right wing rags , which actually I don’t read . In fact I don’t read newspapers at all beyond what arises from this forum.  Nevertheless the whole tenor of your post is based around your fantasy that I do read that stuff.

I might just as easily claim you get your information from left wing rags but I don’t , nor do I make such claims about others but I don’t because I don’t know what they read, except insofar as the vast majority of links you put up are from the Independent ..But off course you always have to introduce the right wing/left wing thing on the basis that you are right and that is the end of it.

Even so you go off on some silly tangent talking about Ukrainians which as far as I know are not asylum seekers nor are there plans to ship them out to Rawanda. Nor have I mentioned Ukrainians as being anything other than genuine refugees, and certainly, as far as I know not coming here via the criminal gangs that are the root of the problem.

Then you talk about my “obsession” with mobile phones as some sort wealth indicator . How is it an obsession if I mention it once, and then in the context that it presumably is linked to a bank account.

Finally my post ends with a question , not a statement of fact. As it is a discussion forum read by many people one or two may be able to sensibly answer the question raised, or least, more sensibly than your huffing and puffing based on the assumption that anyone who disagrees with you is brainwashed by right wing rags.

Read my post again and see if you can spot on a single thing that is likely to have come from a right wing rag as opposed to any other source . Amazingly , it is you, not me that said economic migrants need to be discouraged, which is not what I said at all, nor did I say there were not genuine asylum cases. 

 

He's lost the plot hasn't he. Its sad to see , he had some good input a few years ago. But these days are spent bashing the UK (and Devon) at every opportunity and filling every post with 'whataboutery'. But Brussels is fine etc :D He needs to broaden his horizons imho. B)

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10 minutes ago, Phlipphlopp said:

He's lost the plot hasn't he. Its sad to see , he had some good input a few years ago. But these days are spent bashing the UK (and Devon) at every opportunity and filling every post with 'whataboutery'. But Brussels is fine etc :D He needs to broaden his horizons imho. B)

The problem is, he is too fond of telling others to broaden their horizons and not doing it himself.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, E I Addio said:

You see, straight away, you take a pejorative stance telling me I know nothing beyond what I read in right wing rags , which actually I don’t read . In fact I don’t read newspapers at all beyond what arises from this forum.  Nevertheless the whole tenor of your post is based around your fantasy that I do read that stuff.

Spin it any way you want, but when the issue of asylum seekers/refugees/economic migrants (call them what you will) comes up, you're always one of the first coming on here conflating them with 'illegal immigrants' (when many/most are not), using pejorative terms, saying 'we can't take everyone', and asking provocative 'questions' that are clearly nothing but a dog whistle. You've also referenced right-wing sources on many occasions, so they presumably they resonate with your views.

Many of your so-called 'questions' could quite easily be answered with a bit of simple research - it's not really that difficult to work out where 'illegal immigrants' might be getting their money or why they're able to afford mobile phones. And that has also been explained to you several times in the past, but yet you still choose to confess apparent ignorance about the matter.

I don't really care whether you think I'm left wing, centrist or right wing (I've been accused of all of them). In fact, the Daily Telegraph was my favoured paper for many years (mainly for the sport and to laugh at Boris and Barbara Amiel's nonsense) and I couldn't abide the Guardian, but times and politics change - certainly for the worse in the past decade. 

Quote

Even so you go off on some silly tangent talking about Ukrainians which as far as I know are not asylum seekers nor are there plans to ship them out to Rawanda. Nor have I mentioned Ukrainians as being anything other than genuine refugees, and certainly, as far as I know not coming here via the criminal gangs that are the root of the problem.

How are refugees from the conflicts in Syria, Yemen, Ethiopia and Afghanistan also not genuine? The difference is that Ukrainians generally have the resources to pay their way through regular channels, plus a number of European countries see them as 'one of their own' and are willing to facilitate their migration. The same European countries generally couldn't give a crap about people elsewhere, even though they often encouraged the underlying conflict in the first place. 

Quote

Then you talk about my “obsession” with mobile phones as some sort wealth indicator . How is it an obsession if I mention it once, and then in the context that it presumably is linked to a bank account.

You haven't mentioned it once. You've banged on about mobile phones time-and-time again...

Need I go on...? :D

Quote

Finally my post ends with a question , not a statement of fact. As it is a discussion forum read by many people one or two may be able to sensibly answer the question raised, or least, more sensibly than your huffing and puffing based on the assumption that anyone who disagrees with you is brainwashed by right wing rags.

If you haven't been brainwashed by right wing rags, that's even more worrying... :rolleyes:

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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Simple question. What is the answer to the increasing number of   people\refugees\illegal immigrants illegally entering this country? Should all those who claim asylum have it automatically granted? As far as I can see that is the only way that the Channel crossing can be stopped without some deterrent action like shipping them off to Rwanda. s it unreasonable to ask for  an alternative solution from this scheme's critics?

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