enotian 562 Posted June 12, 2022 Just now, wtf said: Some of us DO know and believe me, Rob Grant has offered more money to League No. 1s than poole are paying any of theirs. This is not about being a cheapskate it's about picking poorly and not being an attractive proposition So that proves my point. Even though Newcastle offered more money to heat leaders than Poole, who have 3 number 1's, they still choose to ride for less money because they were all able to obtain team places and presumably preferred the security of an established track or didn't like home matches on Sunday's or the track. However, had each team been restricted to 1 rider over 8 points then one of those riders would surely have signed for Newcastle on those better terms. Now Poole would still have signed the best team because they'd have signed the best under 8 point riders. That's entirely fair as they're a better run more knowledgeable club but at least all 11 teams would have had the opportunity to have at least one competitive rider in heats 13 and 15. The fact that Rob Grant had offered these heat leaders terms would suggest he realised that the team needed a number one so has he picked a poor team or has he just picked up the pieces of what was left over. Still nobody can come up with the name of a feasible number 1 rider he should have signed. I'm not here to defend Rob Grant as I do believe he's completely out of his depth and has been 'ill advised' and regardless of availability of heat leaders the team/club is a shambles. But the point remains. If the BSPL want an attractive league which retains all of its members then they needed to ensure each team could track a competitive team. They've failed miserably in that and I suspect will have 10 teams in their league next season. Maybe that's what they wanted? In which case job probably done. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillipsr 2,053 Posted June 12, 2022 Loved watching that!! Well in The Lions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teromaafan 586 Posted June 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, enotian said: So that proves my point. Even though Newcastle offered more money to heat leaders than Poole, who have 3 number 1's, they still choose to ride for less money because they were all able to obtain team places and presumably preferred the security of an established track or didn't like home matches on Sunday's or the track. However, had each team been restricted to 1 rider over 8 points then one of those riders would surely have signed for Newcastle on those better terms. Now Poole would still have signed the best team because they'd have signed the best under 8 point riders. That's entirely fair as they're a better run more knowledgeable club but at least all 11 teams would have had the opportunity to have at least one competitive rider in heats 13 and 15. The fact that Rob Grant had offered these heat leaders terms would suggest he realised that the team needed a number one so has he picked a poor team or has he just picked up the pieces of what was left over. Still nobody can come up with the name of a feasible number 1 rider he should have signed. I'm not here to defend Rob Grant as I do believe he's completely out of his depth and has been 'ill advised' and regardless of availability of heat leaders the team/club is a shambles. But the point remains. If the BSPL want an attractive league which retains all of its members then they needed to ensure each team could track a competitive team. They've failed miserably in that and I suspect will have 10 teams in their league next season. Maybe that's what they wanted? In which case job probably done. 10 teams? Even that might be optimistic! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted June 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, Fromafar said: You should know by now that certain Promotions and BSPA only look after themselves.GB speedway is going down the tubes just to suit the riders and not the fans and nothing will change anytime soon.IMO. In a sport with no credibility regarding structure how do they expect fan base to improve.Answers to the Chairman,see if you get a response. I do know. Which is why I'm pointing out what should have been done rather than throwing all the blame at Rob Grant. Clearly he's not blameless and is at this point surely damaging his non speedway business either via funds or reputation but you hit the nail of the head. Self interest to win a competition which has become a joke that nobody is interested in. Simple measures could have been put in place to avoid this sort of scenario. Although I still fear the Diamonds would have been wooden spoon candidates with some of the other team building decisions but at least they would have been able to secure someone to carry the fight in heat 13 and 15. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bringbackHalifax 238 Posted June 12, 2022 Dark dark days for the Geordies. Rob is no speedway promoter and he should of walked at the end of last season. Not sure they will complete season as people will vote with their feet. Lions won well, but only matched Redcar score, however they could of contributed to the end of Newcastle and that will remove 7 league points from their current points total. Irony. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,242 Posted June 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, enotian said: Whilst I think that is probably true the point is, if the authorities want an evenly matched league or even just want to maintain then number of teams in the league, then they needed to give each of the 11 teams the opportunity to sign competitive teams. By allowing two teams to sign half of the league number 1 heat leaders that was never going to happen. We just don't know how much money Rob Grant was offering heat leaders during the winter but given 2021 it was never going to be anyones first choice. Regardless of the standard of teams it just makes no business sense to have a scarce resource able to dictate terms in the pursuit of 'sporting greatness' or whatever winning the CL gives you. From everyones perspective, apart from the riders, it makes entire sense to manufacture supply over demand as then everyone can benefit from the resulting more realistic terms. Obvious.. But not to some it would appear.. When you can pick and choose your leagues to compete in then it seems crackers to not have some kind of quality control by those in charge.. When teams decide that the pinnacle of the sport in the UK isnt worth competing for, and for them they feel better off competing in a lower league, then it speaks volumes as to the low amount of merit which winning any league has in their eyes.. Therefore, at least make every league competitive... And if that is by some contrived system which allows a fair spread of HL talent across every team then so be it.. We have contrived teams happen virtually every night so it's not as if it would be a unique situation for the sport.. No surprise Newcastle are uncompetitive given everyone said at the start that they were uncompetitive... A hard task for the Promoters trying to sell the least competitive team in the least competitive league I would suspect... And that is both home and away promoters. With many away teams having the double whammy of scoring big away and suffering lower crowds when poor teams visit.. But... It isnt like this wasnt pointed out well before a wheel was turned is it? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wtf 621 Posted June 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, enotian said: So that proves my point. Even though Newcastle offered more money to heat leaders than Poole, who have 3 number 1's, they still choose to ride for less money because they were all able to obtain team places and presumably preferred the security of an established track or didn't like home matches on Sunday's or the track. However, had each team been restricted to 1 rider over 8 points then one of those riders would surely have signed for Newcastle on those better terms. Now Poole would still have signed the best team because they'd have signed the best under 8 point riders. That's entirely fair as they're a better run more knowledgeable club but at least all 11 teams would have had the opportunity to have at least one competitive rider in heats 13 and 15. The fact that Rob Grant had offered these heat leaders terms would suggest he realised that the team needed a number one so has he picked a poor team or has he just picked up the pieces of what was left over. Still nobody can come up with the name of a feasible number 1 rider he should have signed. I'm not here to defend Rob Grant as I do believe he's completely out of his depth and has been 'ill advised' and regardless of availability of heat leaders the team/club is a shambles. But the point remains. If the BSPL want an attractive league which retains all of its members then they needed to ensure each team could track a competitive team. They've failed miserably in that and I suspect will have 10 teams in their league next season. Maybe that's what they wanted? In which case job probably done. I think 10 teams is being very optimistic. But you cannot expect the BSPL to act in the best interests of all the clubs, they act in the best interests of themselves. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted June 12, 2022 34 minutes ago, ScottyJ said: The bates have said they wish Leicester could stop winning by so much it's costing them a fortune . And then you look at Newcastle and you have to think Jesus what a shambles. Shouldn't have signed a quarter of the leagues top 12 riders then. You reap what you sow. Tbf the rules allowed it so why wouldn't they. It's such a shambles we're now saying that the winners lose out. Crazy but entirely believable. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisa-colette 6,018 Posted June 12, 2022 28 minutes ago, wtf said: Some of us DO know and believe me, Rob Grant has offered more money to League No. 1s than poole are paying any of theirs. This is not about being a cheapskate it's about picking poorly and not being an attractive proposition Yeah, I can believe that! No matter what people say on here, Poole never pay over the top for riders. Though I think percentage of silverware in the past and the sponsorship and being paid on time helps. There is a YT video of an interview with Matt Ford saying along the lines of, he makes sure he never owes anyone any money even if that means he doesn't get much himself. Anyway I really hope Newcastle can make it to at least the end of the season and beyond as well. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,242 Posted June 12, 2022 47 minutes ago, Fromafar said: It obvious that Newcastle can’t afford to run Championship level if that is the case. No Sunday track could nowadays given so much double upping takes place with riders that ride in Poland on a weekend afternoon.. Hence they need to double up Monday to Saturday... If these Div 1 HL's only rode in Div 1 then the Div 2 teams would be much nearer each others standard, as they would just use riders who didint ride in Poland every Sunday.. For any Sunday team to ride and be competitive in the current format they would need to take "first pick" of those Div 1 HL's who ride in Poland and then build their fixture list around the Saturday/Sunday Polish fixtures... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon1983 557 Posted June 12, 2022 Need to rip this team apart and get in 5/6/7 new riders with a view to looking at next season (if they feel they will run) if it's a team of tryers and exciting then the fans might support that cos quite frankly they cant do anything else this season But can Newcastle sign foreign riders? Coz that's where they have to go to get them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M.D 462 Posted June 12, 2022 This result reminds me of the season Eastbourne sold Gordon Kennett to Kings Lynn with the expectation that Kelly Moran and Ron Preston would return. Neither American returned and we had the worst season losing at home to Cradley 58-20. Next year Bob Dugard went out and purchased Bobby Schwartz and built a new team, can't see Newcastle repeating this sadly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teromaafan 586 Posted June 12, 2022 Sitting here with a glass of wine having followed my team for what was surely their biggest ever way win, I should be delighted, but feel saddened by the state of Newcastle Speedway and the state of the sport. Hats off to the enthusiasm of desperate promoters and supporters, but at what point does the saying ‘well at least we are running and have a team to support’ finally take its toll? How many Newcastle fans are now making plans for their next meeting? Next Sunday is Fathers Day. Don’t know what I’d think of my son if an afternoon at Brough Park was my present! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisa-colette 6,018 Posted June 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said: Need to rip this team apart and get in 5/6/7 new riders with a view to looking at next season (if they feel they will run) if it's a team of tryers and exciting then the fans might support that cos quite frankly they cant do anything else this season But can Newcastle sign foreign riders? Coz that's where they have to go to get them Stewart Dickson said on the Poole stream last Weds that it is really hard to sign untried riders from abroad (or words similar)cos of Brexit and it is really hard to do what Poole did last season when we brought Basso over because of it. I'm not sure if it's mainly cos there is so much more paperwork to get through now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,242 Posted June 12, 2022 43 minutes ago, wtf said: Some of us DO know and believe me, Rob Grant has offered more money to League No. 1s than poole are paying any of theirs. This is not about being a cheapskate it's about picking poorly and not being an attractive proposition Riders of a certain level will always want to keep that Polish option open.. Hence riding Div 1 Mon and Thu and Div 2 Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday is ideal.. Signing up for a Sunday track effectively means "No Poland", as they wont be available to replace injured or out of form riders.. It wasnt a problem when Div 2 only had riders who didnt ride anywhere else but Sweden on a Tuesday, and Denmark on a Wednesday, and that was mainly Swedes and Danes only, riding in their own leagues.. Those days though are now long gone with every GB, Aussie, Swede, Dane, French, German etc etc all wanting Div 2 and Div 3 Polish places.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
