The Elite league

[Chris116 756]

There have been a number of people mentioning the lack of racing in London and having lived in the capital for most of my life I can only feel very sad at what has happened.

While I was young my parents took me racing to Wimbledon, West Ham, New Cross, Hackney, Crayford, White City and Romford for Speedway. We also went to Wimbledon, Harringay, West Ham, White City, Walthamstow and Crayford for Stock Cars. At the same time there was greyhound racing at all of those tracks except Romford which still has a greyhound track. Two other greyhound tracks that come to mind are Crayford and Wandsworth. 

Except for the Romford and Crayford greyhound stadiums all are now closed and knocked down with shopping centres or housing built on the site.

Tracks just outside London included Staines, Arena Essex, Rye House and Rayleigh which I enjoyed racing at but no longer exist. 

The whole situation is very sad for speedway, stock car and greyhound racing fans. London has become a desert with ever more housing built and then our political masters wonder why the young find entertainment in spraying graffiti everywhere or having mob fights at a weekend. 

 

Now my closest tracks for speedway are Poole and Isle of Wight but public transport no longer can get me home afterwards. For stock cars the choice is Aldershot and that is a 30 minute walk from the station!

I am just happy to have enjoyed the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s when I could enjoy motor racing on 2 and 4 wheels in the London area and feel sorry for those who are growing up now.

[ch958 2,394]

Crayford's still there but i understand its too small to fit a track in, wd it be smaller than Plymouth?

[Humphrey Appleby 13,947]

33 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Except for the Romford and Crayford greyhound stadiums all are now closed and knocked down with shopping centres or housing built on the site.

Neither Hackney nor Wimbledon were knocked down for shopping centres or housing, and were replaced by other sports facilities. Well okay Hackney ended up being the Olympic media centre as far as I'm aware, but it could potentially have been relocated within the complex if the right representations had been made. 

[baiden 90]

3 minutes ago, ch958 said:

Crayford's still there but i understand its too small to fit a track in, wd it be smaller than Plymouth?

I don't think the current Crayford stadium has ever hosted speedway. Racing ceased when the old Crayford & Bexleyheath Stadium was demolished.

[ch958 2,394]

1 hour ago, baiden said:

I don't think the current Crayford stadium has ever hosted speedway. Racing ceased when the old Crayford & Bexleyheath Stadium was demolished.

no, it hasn't but i just thought with the recent fashion for smaller tracks...the original one was small enough though

[steve roberts 9,242]

11 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

F1 doesn't have a track operating in London either, but still gets plenty of attention. 

The 'mass media' is much less important than it once was. Few under the age of 50 read newspapers or even watch mainstream TV these days, so the opportunities are there for sports that can gain attention through other channels. 

The problem of course, is that speedway is largely followed by people well over 50 and unfortunately has been unable or unwilling to address that underlying issue for the past 20-30 years. Just as an example, any sport of any credibility has an app where you can get news and live results, but does British speedway? The SGP now has one which is a start, but even that's somewhat lame (e.g. its developers are apparently unable to even make a proper logo for it). 

A bit different I think...Formula One is a world wide phenomena and was/is largely based on TV transmission (in whatever format) which obviously attracts the mass media (which I include all aspects of social media outlets) as do other "favourite" sports that are forever pushed forward for mass consumption despite their often mediocre offerings. I gave up years ago watching BBC's "Sports Personality of the Year" as it concentrated on sports that were obviously part of their own agenda and choosing....even when speedway was big news it never got a fair analysis as it didn't fit within the beeb's remit.

I would be interested in knowing the demographics of the more "popular" sports and whether they justify blanket coverage and who sets the agenda?

Interesting that you mention that few under the age of 50 watch mainstream TV which, if true, beggars belief in that the rest of us have to endure banal TV programmes obviously aimed at those same people and many produced, presumeably, by people having recently graduated from University with a degree in nothing of any great importance!

Edited July 13, 2022 by steve roberts

[Humphrey Appleby 13,947]

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

A bit different I think...Formula One is a world wide phenomena and was/is largely based on TV transmission (in whatever format) which obviously attracts the mass media (which I include all aspects of social media outlets) as do other "favourite" sports that are forever pushed forward for mass consumption despite their often mediocre offerings. I gave up years ago watching BBC's "Sports Personality of the Year" as it concentrated on sports that were obviously part of their own agenda and choosing....even when speedway was big news it never got a fair analysis as it didn't fit within the beeb's remit.

Yes, but why is F1 a worldwide phenomena and speedway isn't? F1 isn't actually very spectator friendly, taking place in fairly remote places with poor viewing, whereas with speedway you can see all the action. But it was clever enough to make sure it was one of the first regularly televised sports.

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I would be interested in knowing the demographics of the more "popular" sports and whether they justify blanket coverage and who sets the agenda?

Cricket for some reason, has always attracted high rollers (originally because of gambling) although it's always had participation across the social classes. If you look at the sponsors and adverts during cricket, they tend towards investment and trading companies rather than used car dealers or panel beaters, and that tells you everything about who's following the sport.

Moreover, its following knows how to leverage the media, sponsors, financing and government support for the sport, which is why we still have 18 first class cricket clubs despite most of them living a quite marginal existence. At a test match, look at all the politicians, celebrities and captains of industry who turn up, none of whom would be seen dead at speedway.

Rugby Union largely has a similar sort of following - maybe less so in Wales - but again look at the type of sponsors that it attracts. 

Rugby League probably has many parallels with speedway. Historically a bit hand-to-mouth, but arguably rooted deeper in its core communities than speedway, so there was more willingness from local media and businesses to rally round during tough times. It was also clever enough to get on television early, which is perhaps what attracted Murdoch to 'buy' the sport and raise it out of the dark ages. Having said that, I still don't think it's really ever made the expected inroads that you'd have expected from the massive investment, remaining a largely regional sport in both Britain and Australia. 

Ice Hockey - again many parallels to speedway and arguably sharing a similar fan base historically. Also had it's ups-and-down and massive instability over the years, before seemingly finding its current moderately successful format. Again, it's probably survived because ice hockey is a major sport in a few other countries and it can benefit from that, although you'd have to say British ice hockey is still not very high profile or featured prominently in the mainstream media, and that's again reflected in the type of sponsors it has. 

Football is just the great God that's followed pretty much by everyone to some extent. Easy to play, easy to watch, a whole soap opera around it, and plenty of rich fools willing to throw around their money to demonstrate their munificence... 

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Interesting that you mention that few under the age of 50 watch mainstream TV which, if true, beggars belief in that the rest of us have to endure banal TV programmes obviously aimed at those same people and many produced, presumeably, by people having recently graduated from University with a degree in nothing of any great importance!

Mainstream television has always been quite banal. You're just getting old and only remembering the good stuff from yesteryear... 

[steve roberts 9,242]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Yes, but why is F1 a worldwide phenomena and speedway isn't? F1 isn't actually very spectator friendly, taking place in fairly remote places with poor viewing, whereas with speedway you can see all the action. But it was clever enough to make sure it was one of the first regularly televised sports.

Cricket for some reason, has always attracted high rollers (originally because of gambling) although it's always had participation across the social classes. If you look at the sponsors and adverts during cricket, they tend towards investment and trading companies rather than used car dealers or panel beaters, and that tells you everything about who's following the sport.

Moreover, its following knows how to leverage the media, sponsors, financing and government support for the sport, which is why we still have 18 first class cricket clubs despite most of them living a quite marginal existence. At a test match, look at all the politicians, celebrities and captains of industry who turn up, none of whom would be seen dead at speedway.

Rugby Union largely has a similar sort of following - maybe less so in Wales - but again look at the type of sponsors that it attracts. 

Rugby League probably has many parallels with speedway. Historically a bit hand-to-mouth, but arguably rooted deeper in its core communities than speedway, so there was more willingness from local media and businesses to rally round during tough times. It was also clever enough to get on television early, which is perhaps what attracted Murdoch to 'buy' the sport and raise it out of the dark ages. Having said that, I still don't think it's really ever made the expected inroads that you'd have expected from the massive investment, remaining a largely regional sport in both Britain and Australia. 

Ice Hockey - again many parallels to speedway and arguably sharing a similar fan base historically. Also had it's ups-and-down and massive instability over the years, before seemingly finding its current moderately successful format. Again, it's probably survived because ice hockey is a major sport in a few other countries and it can benefit from that, although you'd have to say British ice hockey is still not very high profile or featured prominently in the mainstream media, and that's again reflected in the type of sponsors it has. 

Football is just the great God that's followed pretty much by everyone to some extent. Easy to play, easy to watch, a whole soap opera around it, and plenty of rich fools willing to throw around their money to demonstrate their munificence... 

Mainstream television has always been quite banal. You're just getting old and only remembering the good stuff from yesteryear... 

....without the glut of "celebrity" culture programmes and reality rubbish we now have to endure however!

[steve roberts 9,242]

5 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Yes, but why is F1 a worldwide phenomena and speedway isn't? F1 isn't actually very spectator friendly, taking place in fairly remote places with poor viewing, whereas with speedway you can see all the action. But it was clever enough to make sure it was one of the first regularly televised sports.

Cricket for some reason, has always attracted high rollers (originally because of gambling) although it's always had participation across the social classes. If you look at the sponsors and adverts during cricket, they tend towards investment and trading companies rather than used car dealers or panel beaters, and that tells you everything about who's following the sport.

Moreover, its following knows how to leverage the media, sponsors, financing and government support for the sport, which is why we still have 18 first class cricket clubs despite most of them living a quite marginal existence. At a test match, look at all the politicians, celebrities and captains of industry who turn up, none of whom would be seen dead at speedway.

Rugby Union largely has a similar sort of following - maybe less so in Wales - but again look at the type of sponsors that it attracts. 

Rugby League probably has many parallels with speedway. Historically a bit hand-to-mouth, but arguably rooted deeper in its core communities than speedway, so there was more willingness from local media and businesses to rally round during tough times. It was also clever enough to get on television early, which is perhaps what attracted Murdoch to 'buy' the sport and raise it out of the dark ages. Having said that, I still don't think it's really ever made the expected inroads that you'd have expected from the massive investment, remaining a largely regional sport in both Britain and Australia. 

Ice Hockey - again many parallels to speedway and arguably sharing a similar fan base historically. Also had it's ups-and-down and massive instability over the years, before seemingly finding its current moderately successful format. Again, it's probably survived because ice hockey is a major sport in a few other countries and it can benefit from that, although you'd have to say British ice hockey is still not very high profile or featured prominently in the mainstream media, and that's again reflected in the type of sponsors it has. 

Football is just the great God that's followed pretty much by everyone to some extent. Easy to play, easy to watch, a whole soap opera around it, and plenty of rich fools willing to throw around their money to demonstrate their munificence... 

Mainstream television has always been quite banal. You're just getting old and only remembering the good stuff from yesteryear... 

Money and gullibility I dare say!

Problem is that the BBC in particular stick to the "Old Boys" network of sports and it's very difficult for minority sports to break into that mindsight. Speedway during its last "Golden Era" still didn't register with the Management structure at the beeb leaving it to the sadly missed "World of Sport" to pick up the mantel. Even the Mirror Group who backed the sport back then their coverage was rather hit and miss giving way to the "established" sports and although they gave the likes of Peter Collins good publicity their editorials were generally disappointing especially at domestic level.

Edited July 14, 2022 by steve roberts

[mikebv 10,258]

Speedway has three main issues which stifle its development and growth..

One. The operating model. Simply it is designed to give the owners something to spend their money on that they enjoy. There is no plan for growth nor development, hence putting out "any adhoc Speedway", regardless of credibility, integrity, or relevance, is the objective, rather than running the sport like other "respected, relevant and succesful" sports' do, with genuine "worth winning" Championships..

Secondly. A complete lack of capability (or maybe desire?) in marketing the sport nationally through a nationally recognised marketing company, instead we have tracks doing "their very best" locally, using well meaning amateurs, (although trying to sell the current operating model would be beyond even the best advertising agencies I would think)..

And Thirdly. A lack of a consistently successful national team with which to live off the coat tails of. Ten to Fifteen years from now of GB winning individual and team events, including Test Matches, would paint a very different picture for the sport domestically than it does today. 

(Yet in the 2nd Div we dont even have Rising Stars which tells us all we need to know about how important growth and development of GB riders is to some)..

The whole thing is fragmented and disjointed, and unless it every comes together under one voice leadership then it is never going to be successful.. 

Succesful sports have successful leaders in charge, making tough decisions for the greater good. Leaders who have contacts in the wider media, marketing and business world..

Should Speedway ever allow itself to have the same, then it has a chance..

If it chooses to persist in following its narrow minded, myopic operating model and business plan then it wont..

[ch958 2,394]

completely agree with your 3 points, however - 4 should be finding tracks that aren't going to be sold/ rented at extortionate prices. Clubs based at dog tracks are doomed, if not now then some time in the future

Its interesting, some saying spend TV money on getting big names back when (and i realise its difficult) it should be spent on getting a field somewhere and making a Somerset/ Redcar/ Scunny facility. Worky have shown it can be done - expensive but not prohibitive

Finally, I don't care how weak teams have to be but the seven should be your seven, anything else is an unmarketable sham

[iainb 4,989]

30 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Speedway has three main issues which stifle its development and growth..

One. The operating model. Simply it is designed to give the owners something to spend their money on that they enjoy. There is no plan for growth nor development, hence putting out "any adhoc Speedway", regardless of credibility, integrity, or relevance, is the objective, rather than running the sport like other "respected, relevant and succesful" sports' do, with genuine "worth winning" Championships..

Secondly. A complete lack of capability (or maybe desire?) in marketing the sport nationally through a nationally recognised marketing company, instead we have tracks doing "their very best" locally, using well meaning amateurs, (although trying to sell the current operating model would be beyond even the best advertising agencies I would think)..

And Thirdly. A lack of a consistently successful national team with which to live off the coat tails of. Ten to Fifteen years from now of GB winning individual and team events, including Test Matches, would paint a very different picture for the sport domestically than it does today. 

(Yet in the 2nd Div we dont even have Rising Stars which tells us all we need to know about how important growth and development of GB riders is to some)..

The whole thing is fragmented and disjointed, and unless it every comes together under one voice leadership then it is never going to be successful.. 

Succesful sports have successful leaders in charge, making tough decisions for the greater good. Leaders who have contacts in the wider media, marketing and business world..

Should Speedway ever allow itself to have the same, then it has a chance..

If it chooses to persist in following its narrow minded, myopic operating model and business plan then it wont..

One: "any adhoc Speedway", regardless of credibility, integrity, or relevance... NO! I won't have this, we have the Jubilee Trophy! How relevant is that! much better than the irrelevant Summer Trophy... which appears to have never existed.

Secondly: we have tracks doing "their very best", some tracks don't even do their very best, they just expect people to turn up.

Thirdly: Although Speedway GB Team has achieved well deserved success in the SoN, the rest of the time they only seem to ride on the continent with a rag tag bunch of riders who are available. A proper national team has first call on ALL of their riders and hold proper test matches home and abroad.

Successful sports have successful leaders in charge... don't forget we have the Scummy centre green presenter running things from his caravan in deepest darkest Lincolnshire making things up as he goes along to suit his own club, which ain't bad when compared to Liberty Media running their F1 operation from a tent in Denver or the Premier League directing operations from a Nissen Hut next to Paddington station

Edited July 14, 2022 by iainb

[steve roberts 9,242]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

One: "any adhoc Speedway", regardless of credibility, integrity, or relevance... NO! I won't have this, we have the Jubilee Trophy! How relevant is that! much better than the irrelevant Summer Trophy... which appears to have never existed.

Secondly: we have tracks doing "their very best", some tracks don't even do their very best, they just expect people to turn up.

Thirdly: Although Speedway GB Team has achieved well deserved success in the SoN, the rest of the time they only seem to ride on the continent with a rag tag bunch of riders who are available. A proper national team has first call on ALL of their riders and hold proper test matches home and abroad.

Successful sports have successful leaders in charge... don't forget we have the Scummy centre green presenter running things from his caravan in deepest darkest Lincolnshire making things up as he goes along to suit his own club, which ain't bad when compared to Liberty Media running their F1 operation from a tent in Denver or the Premier League directing operations from a Nissen Hut next to Paddington station

Until speedway adopts a policy of having an independant body governing the sport it will only get worse and I don't go along with the often quoted argument that any one promoter will not accept someone independantly running "their" business because other sports cope admirally with such a policy.

[chunky 6,089]

3 hours ago, ch958 said:

completely agree with your 3 points, however - 4 should be finding tracks that aren't going to be sold/ rented at extortionate prices. Clubs based at dog tracks are doomed, if not now then some time in the future

Its interesting, some saying spend TV money on getting big names back when (and i realise its difficult) it should be spent on getting a field somewhere and making a Somerset/ Redcar/ Scunny facility. Worky have shown it can be done - expensive but not prohibitive

Finally, I don't care how weak teams have to be but the seven should be your seven, anything else is an unmarketable sham

Great post...

As has been said on here recently, British speedway has suffered from a lot of problems that AREN'T directly related to speedway, the most important of which is the lack of venues. You can run a sport without sponsors, but you can't run a sport without venues.

The big problem is that unlike most other motorsports, we can't just use "land"; tracks have to be built, and built a certain way. It is one of the hazards of being the most specialised of motorsports. I do agree though, we need to seek out more venues - but that costs money...

[Skidder1 7,633]

As a serious question - to all those budding Marketing experts on here - what would be your themes and messages in a National Speedway Marketing and Publicity campaign??

Answers on the back of your nearest 'fag packet' please.