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Sidney the robin

Poole 1983.

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Can anyone give me the heat details of Poole v Belle Vue ( h) and Belle Vue (a) and Halifax ( a) much appreciated can’t be bothered to dig out my speedway stars.Lee  that year was very good beat Hans/Erik easily at times also Kenny was sublime too.

Edited by Sidney the robin

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On 7/23/2022 at 1:54 PM, Sidney the robin said:

Can anyone give me the heat details of Poole v Belle Vue ( h) and Belle Vue (a) and Halifax ( a) much appreciated can’t be bothered to dig out my speedway stars.Lee  that year was very good beat Hans/Erik easily at times also Kenny was sublime too.

Hi Sid,

Right about Lee that year. He picked himself up and gave a very good account of himself at Norden (I was there)...shame it all went wrong agian the following season. He should have been a major force for most of the eighties giving the Danes a run for their money but alas his "demons" got the better of him.

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I'll have the Aces v Poole result at home, will dig it out when back from holidays. I do remember Andy Smith passing him in heat 11 to join Mort for a 5-1

Also remember him scoring a flawless 15 point maximum as a guest for Sheffield at Hyde Rd that season

Edited by waiheke1
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On 7/27/2022 at 10:06 PM, steve roberts said:

Hi Sid,

Right about Lee that year. He picked himself up and gave a very good account of himself at Norden (I was there)...shame it all went wrong agian the following season. He should have been a major force for most of the eighties giving the Danes a run for their money but alas his "demons" got the better of him.

The meetings that stick out for me were his paid 17 against Denmark 1983 at Hackney he was very good at the wick.Also beating Gundersen  at Dudley numerous times ( including golden helmet  ( and Carter 4.0 helmet) 1983.Just imagine a fit Carter and motiavated Lee they would of been competetive against Hans/ Erik.Having said that Hans improved when he moved to Cowley really frustrated how Lee,s career ended we all know just how good he was.In a way Steve we were both lucky we both see quite a bit of a young Michael and have good and bad memories  that still remain being stopped to ride in the 1984 British Final when cleared of the charges finished his career.

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21 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

The meetings that stick out for me were his paid 17 against Denmark 1983 at Hackney he was very good at the wick.Also beating Gundersen  at Dudley numerous times ( including golden helmet  ( and Carter 4.0 helmet) 1983.Just imagine a fit Carter and motiavated Lee they would of been competetive against Hans/ Erik.Having said that Hans improved when he moved to Cowley really frustrated how Lee,s career ended we all know just how good he was.In a way Steve we were both lucky we both see quite a bit of a young Michael and have good and bad memories  that still remain being stopped to ride in the 1984 British Final when cleared of the charges finished his career.

I saw a 14 year old Michael give interval demonstration rides against an equally young Colin Richardson at Cowley...easy to say who went on to be the better rider although Colin did show plenty of potential for one so young.

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45 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I saw a 14 year old Michael give interval demonstration rides against an equally young Colin Richardson at Cowley...easy to say who went on to be the better rider although Colin did show plenty of potential for one so young.

You must of seen Mike plenty of times at White City over the years Steve? i was fortunate anough to see him ride quite often.Have acquired quite alot of the 1983 footage of Michael and it still gives me great pleasure in seeing him reinvent himself after the 81/82 disaster seasons( a great 81 Longtrack victory though).

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1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

You must of seen Mike plenty of times at White City over the years Steve? i was fortunate anough to see him ride quite often.Have acquired quite alot of the 1983 footage of Michael and it still gives me great pleasure in seeing him reinvent himself after the 81/82 disaster seasons( a great 81 Longtrack victory though).

Certainly did Sid! I remember the time in 1977 when he was about to walk out of the Knock Out Cup Semi-Final meeting due to constant engine problems but was sweet talked back into riding by Martin Rogers on the centre green right in front of us...as these things do if Michael had carried out his threat the "Rebels" may well have taken the double that year?

Also saw his bow riding for England against the Rest of the World (yes England were that good back then!) at Wood Lane.

Edited by steve roberts
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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Certainly did Sid! I remember the time in 1977 when he was about to walk out of the Knock Out Cup Semi-Final meeting due to constant engine problems but was sweet talked back into riding by Martin Rogers on the centre green right in front of us...as these things do if Michael had carried out his threat the "Rebels" may well have taken the double that year?

Also saw his bow riding for England against the Rest of the World (yes England were that good back then!) at Wood Lane.

I first see Michael ride at the Abbey in the September 1975 he scored 10 points .Not the prettiest to watch but you knew he had class Gollob/ Ward are the only other two riders who rival him for natural talent  in my book.And to this day Craven, Collins, Lee, Woffinden are my top four English riders of alltime.

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Lee was good in 1983. Very good. And at times, downright brilliant. I don't think he was the best rider in the world that year. That was probably Hans Nielsen. But he was back in the mix for sure and it would have been much more interesting having a motivated Lee, an active Penhall, a fit and stable Carter and a fit Sigalos around for a few more years to challenge and possibly beat Gundersen and Nielsen. 

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I recall Lee winning the Adver Superstars meeting at Swindon in '83. He broke the track record whilst pulling wheelies down the straights on the last couple of laps of one heat. Such skill...

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4 hours ago, falcace said:

Lee was good in 1983. Very good. And at times, downright brilliant. I don't think he was the best rider in the world that year. That was probably Hans Nielsen. But he was back in the mix for sure and it would have been much more interesting having a motivated Lee, an active Penhall, a fit and stable Carter and a fit Sigalos around for a few more years to challenge and possibly beat Gundersen and Nielsen. 

I don’t think Nielsen in 83 was anywhere near the best rider in the world he was world class not doubt it. But in 83 Carter beat him easily in the helmet .And at Hackney  in the test match Lee/ Carter both destroyed Hans/Erik.Lee beat Hans in both the BLRC at Belle Vue and the pride of the east meetings comfortably 1984/ Hans moved up a level.

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14 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I don’t think Nielsen in 83 was anywhere near the best rider in the world he was world class not doubt it. But in 83 Carter beat him easily in the helmet .And at Hackney  in the test match Lee/ Carter both destroyed Hans/Erik.Lee beat Hans in both the BLRC at Belle Vue and the pride of the east meetings comfortably 1984/ Hans moved up a level.

...obviously moving to Oxford gave him that extra incentive which was missing at his previous clubs and, as they say, the rest is history!

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11 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I don’t think Nielsen in 83 was anywhere near the best rider in the world he was world class not doubt it. But in 83 Carter beat him easily in the helmet .And at Hackney  in the test match Lee/ Carter both destroyed Hans/Erik.Lee beat Hans in both the BLRC at Belle Vue and the pride of the east meetings comfortably 1984/ Hans moved up a level.

You say that....but...

  • Nielsen topped the averages with 10.82. Lee was 6th with 10.16 and third Englishman.
  • Nielsen won the Intercontinental Final.
  • Nielsen would have been in a run-off for 2nd in the World Final with Sanders had he not packed up in the final race whilst well ahead making Lee 4th.
  • Nielsen won the World Team Cup with Denmark, dropping only 1point through qualifiers and final.

I think that clearly trumps anything achieved by Lee, who finished the season very well, but was actually pretty poor in test series against USA (for example). Nielsen actually won things that year and finished as the top rider in the British League.

It's easy to fall into the trap of overestimating a performance of a rider on some cherry picked meetings, but ultimately they are deemed pretty irrelevant in a wider scene. I think I have said on here before I saw Chris Morton single handedly blitz a field of Nielsen, Wigg, Moran, Gundersen, Pedersen, Knudsen, Tatum at the British Open Pairs at Sheffield a week before the 86 World Final. I was convinced he had a huge chance of being World Champion a week later. But the natural order resumed when it really mattered and Mort finished down the field.

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9 hours ago, falcace said:

You say that....but...

  • Nielsen topped the averages with 10.82. Lee was 6th with 10.16 and third Englishman.
  • Nielsen won the Intercontinental Final.
  • Nielsen would have been in a run-off for 2nd in the World Final with Sanders had he not packed up in the final race whilst well ahead making Lee 4th.
  • Nielsen won the World Team Cup with Denmark, dropping only 1point through qualifiers and final.

I think that clearly trumps anything achieved by Lee, who finished the season very well, but was actually pretty poor in test series against USA (for example). Nielsen actually won things that year and finished as the top rider in the British League.

It's easy to fall into the trap of overestimating a performance of a rider on some cherry picked meetings, but ultimately they are deemed pretty irrelevant in a wider scene. I think I have said on here before I saw Chris Morton single handedly blitz a field of Nielsen, Wigg, Moran, Gundersen, Pedersen, Knudsen, Tatum at the British Open Pairs at Sheffield a week before the 86 World Final. I was convinced he had a huge chance of being World Champion a week later. But the natural order resumed when it really mattered and Mort finished down the field.

You said Nielsen was the best rider probably..? in1983 ..Lee got injured in the test series at Wimbledon in the USA tests.yet stats say Nielsen was great .For me  1983 Lee/Carter  had the  beating of him not easily  but t in 83 Lee and Carter blew him away often yes HANS was a great RIDER  and went on to prove GREATNESS.but not in 1983.

Edited by Sidney the robin
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1 minute ago, Sidney the robin said:

You said Nielsen was the best rider probably..? in1983 ..Lee got injured in the test series at Wimbledon in the USA tests.yet stats say Nielsen was great .For me  1983 Lee/Carter  had the  beating of him not easily  of but t in 83 Lee and Carter blew him away often yes HANS was a great RIDER  and went on to prove GREATNESS.

Biased, I know, but Nielsen was THE rider of the middle/late eighties/early nineties in my opinion as Ivan was in the seventies with Olsen poking his nose in now and again although Peter Collins gave them the runaround and Michanek was sublime in 1973.

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