The Greatest Seven riders ever

[Robyn1972 0]

Right - deep breath then... I will stress though that I make no pretence that these are "great" riders in the sense of the word that many of you may be meaning it....

 

1) Andy Galvin (1988) - He was truly at the top of his game that year, almost unstoppable, and a delight to watch

2) Chris Louis - If these guys were going to be formed into a team, then Chris would be my bet for Captain. Professional, stylish, good at handling people and situations, and capable of some incredible overtaking moves, especially round Foxhall

3) Tony Rickardsson - watched him riding for Ipswich and he was breathtaking. Talk about a risk-taker - so many times we thought he was headed for the stock car track and somehow he managed to hang on and end up taking the chequered flag....phew!

4) Mark Loram - from his first season at hackney in 1987 - even then he was so clearly one to watch.

5) Hans Neilsen - what can you say......ever a pleasure to watch.

6) Malcolm Simmons - worthy of more than a reserve spot really. Only saw him riding in his last season of course, but even then he could put some of the youngsters to shame...

7) Alan Mogridge - The Entertainer! Always worth paying to watch in my opinion - another one like TRick to an extent - not the most elegant of riders but seems to get some results. Glad to see he's having a good year with Stoke!

[oxford duke 0]

Best I've seen (started in 1992)

 

1 Per Jonsson

2 Tommy Knudsen

3 Gary Havelock

4 Hans Nielsen

5 Tony Rickardsson

6Mark Loram

7 Joe Screen

 

All time

1MAUGER

2OLSEN

3JONSSON

4CARTER

5RICKARDSSON

6NIELSEN

7PENHALL

[fatface 2,549]

7) Alan Mogridge - The Entertainer! Always worth paying to watch in my opinion - another one like TRick to an extent - not the most elegant of riders but seems to get some results. Glad to see he's having a good year with Stoke!

That's the first time I've ever heard those two riders rated similarly.

 

Moggo is about as close to being an all-time great as my granny. Fair play to Moggo though, I've always found him to be nothing but a credit to the sport and he would make my top 7 "entertainers" list.

[norbold 7,098]

I know you are a great Peter Craven fan, Jim, but what I meant was I don't think that Craven was ever clearly the number one in the world in the same way that Moore was around 1954-5 or Fundin was around 1960-63 or Briggs around 1964-6. Certainly he was one of the top three or four, especially in that period between 1956 and 1959 when Moore, Fundin, Briggs and Craven were all capable of beating each other, but I think Moore, Fundin and Briggs all had their day as clear number 1 and Craven never did. Just my opinion.

[norbold 7,098]

Another statistic. Speedway Star started their World Rankings in 1956. Between 1956 and 1962, Fundin was ranked number one in the world in six out of the seven years. The only year he missed was 1958 when Briggs was ranked top and Fundin was second. Craven only managed runner-up spot once in 1962. Between 1956 and 62 his ranking was 4 3 3 3 3 6 2, compared to Fundin's 1121111.

[norbold 7,098]

Not bad for Moore then considering he missed the 1957 season and only came back late in the 1958 season. Had he been in the 1957 Final I think he would have managed more than 5 points.

 

Moore's best years were 1954 and 5 before the rankings. However he was ranked second in 1956, 59 and 60 as well and also above Craven in 1961. Craven was only ranked above him in 1957 (the year he didn't ride), 1958 (the year he missed half the season) and 1962.

 

I'm not saying Craven was a duffer or anything. Of course he was an all-time great and I agree he should be included in any list of all time greats. As a matter of fact I believe he was the rider who beat Fundin more times than any other rider but I still think he was never quite the number one in any particular year - a bit like Jack Parker.

Edited June 4, 2004 by norbold

[norbold 7,098]

Over to Peter Oakes then....

[Dick Darstadly 0]

All a rider can do is go out and win races. A comparison would be that Giacomo Agostini, (15 times World Champion, 122 GP wins etc etc) is all the all time best rider in road racing bar none. Jim Redman whom I know, only won 6 world championships, though in his meetings with 'Ago', he beat him more than the other way around. Ago will never be over took as the number one rider, but he could not beat Jim very often.

 

Does that make sense as a anaolgy?

[fatface 2,549]

Another statistic. Speedway Star started their World Rankings in 1956. Between 1956 and 1962, Fundin was ranked number one in the world in six out of the seven years. The only year he missed was 1958 when Briggs was ranked top and Fundin was second. Craven only managed runner-up spot once in 1962. Between 1956 and 62 his ranking was 4 3 3 3 3 6 2, compared to Fundin's 1121111.

World rankings? Sounds like a lot of fun. I remember Speedway Mail did something similar in the early 80s. Respected figures from all the key speedway countries (GB, Denmark, Sweden, USA, Czecho, Poland, Germany etc.) would submit their annual top 10 and an overall top 10 would be drawn from it.

 

Of course, there was an element of the Eurovision about it all: Germany would have Muller/Maier in their list, Czecho would have Stancl/Dryml, Poland had Plech/Jancarz. But all in all, it seemed to produce a fairly accurate list. It would be interesting to see something similar for today's speedway. I suspect, despite last year's GP, not many would rank Nicki P as no1.

[norbold 7,098]

All a rider can do is go out and win races. A comparison would be that Giacomo Agostini, (15 times World Champion, 122 GP wins etc etc) is all the all time best rider in road racing bar none. Jim Redman whom I know, only won 6 world championships, though in his meetings with 'Ago', he beat him more than the other way around. Ago will never be over took as the number one rider, but he could not beat Jim very often.

 

Does that make sense as a anaolgy?

Not sure what your analogy is. Are you saying that even if Craven magaged to beat Fundin more times than vice versa, Fundin would still be number one as he won the World Title 5 times to Craven's 2? If that's what you're saying I agree with your analogy.

[norbold 7,098]

I think you're spot on ILS.

[iris123 20,935]

I would say that Ronnie Moore was the best rider in the world for a few years and had the talent to be the best for longer but lacked the determination of,say Mauger.

As for Briggo he won the title while the rest were there,he wasn`t waiting for the others to "disapear"

[Shoddy 1]

No actual experience of these riders but my opinion for the hell of it...

 

I think Craven qualifies in our little baton passing list. Two world titles - and probably slightly unlucky to only be that - in the years of Briggs, Moore and Fundin puts him up there in my eyes. I think Bjorn Knutsson must come close to being that standard aswell.

 

How do you 'oldies' (I'm turning 30 very soon so just enjoy anybody being older than me right now!!!) think either Craven or Knutsson would have fared against Mauger and Olsen if they'd come along in the 70's??? I know both Mauger and Olsen were genuine class but was the top end, 'World Class', competition as tough in these years??? A couple of very good years for Michanek and Peter Collins apart it just doesn't seem as competitive to me. I think a couple of riders like Ken McKinlay, who nobody mentions in things like this, could well have ranked much higher but they possibly peaked alongside the strongest final fields ever. As ever hard to compare but things just look a little easier - still, you can only beat who is there to beat of course.

 

I think it's hard to argue that Fundin-Briggs-Moore-Craven-Knutsson were not the greatest 5 to race in the same era. Possibly the could have been run close if the mid 80's would have been able to give us Lee-Penhall-Carter-Gundersen-Nielsen???

[iris123 20,935]

Thought Michanek was at or near the top of the averages for a while,not just a couple of years.

Suppose you can say it about a lot of riders ,but who knows what Harrfeldt might have acheived but for injury

[norbold 7,098]

It's just so hard to compare riders of different eras. To a large extent you have to go by results. There is an argument to say that perhaps the Big 5 weren't really that good because none of them dominated the sport in the way that Mauger or Rickardsson (or Duggan - sorry, Shoddy ) have done in their time. On the other hand you could say that it just shows that Mauger and Rickardsson had no opposition like the Big 5 did and weren't really that good -just the best of a mediocre bunch. The argument can be used either way.

 

I think you're right about the mid 80s. But it also makes the point above in a way. Would Nielsen and Gundersen still be in the all-time greats if Lee and Penhall had still been around at their best? Would they have won so many World Titles? Who knows?

 

Incidentally a rider I think often gets overlooked is Gote Nordin. In my opinion he was right up there with Fundin, Briggs and Knutson c. 1963. There was some talk of him being put on the same 20 yard handicap that they had at the time.

Edited June 4, 2004 by norbold