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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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17 hours ago, Vince said:

When exactly did we change the regulations on anything in the past few weeks that moved us out of line with EU regulatory standards?

You may have missed it Vince as it hasn't been in the news much, but a few weeks ago there was this thing called "Brexit" where Britain decided to leave the EU. As a result, we needed to negotiate special access for areas where Britain didn't want to be treated the same as all the other countries outside the EU. Some areas where we didn't negotiate special access includes the export of live shellfish and frozen meats, therefore all of those British exports are now treated exactly the same as exports from any other third country.

This lack of special treatment appears to have come as a surprise to those who believed the likes of Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al. who said Britain would get a "great deal" and that "the EU needs us more than we need them".

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14 hours ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Well you could always offer to pony up the £1700 hotel quarantine bill for them ?

We have our country back. Surely we can remove this requirement if it helps British businesses to export and grow!! I keep getting emails and webinar invites from the DTI to advise me on where I am going wrong!!

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13 hours ago, Phlipphlopp said:

If you can highlight where i stated this was a 'post brexit' success that would be great. 

Why mention a satellite deal with Australia then if you're not trying to present it as a post-Brexit success? :rolleyes:

But good that you acknowledge that the Australian satellite market is nothing like the EU one that the UK has now lost access to. You're slowly learning... :D

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5 hours ago, TesarRacing said:

We have our country back. Surely we can remove this requirement if it helps British businesses to export and grow!! I keep getting emails and webinar invites from the DTI to advise me on where I am going wrong!!

You best tell covid that.

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4 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Why mention a satellite deal with Australia then if you're not trying to present it as a post-Brexit success? :rolleyes:

But good that you acknowledge that the Australian satellite market is nothing like the EU one that the UK has now lost access to. You're slowly learning... :D

I thought i'd post it as you'd probably not find it in the far left rags you read. :rolleyes:

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5 hours ago, MattK said:

You may have missed it Vince as it hasn't been in the news much, but a few weeks ago there was this thing called "Brexit" where Britain decided to leave the EU. As a result, we needed to negotiate special access for areas where Britain didn't want to be treated the same as all the other countries outside the EU. Some areas where we didn't negotiate special access includes the export of live shellfish and frozen meats, therefore all of those British exports are now treated exactly the same as exports from any other third country.

This lack of special treatment appears to have come as a surprise to those who believed the likes of Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al. who said Britain would get a "great deal" and that "the EU needs us more than we need them".

Yeah that is a very nice line in sarcasm but forgets to address which regulations and standards we have changed since leaving. you may have missed it but that was the question!

The deal should always have been easier than for other third countries because all the regulations were already in line, that hasn't changed, we agreed not to reduce any standards but still life is currently being made more difficult than it need be. Undoubtedly there will be some twit for tat and posturing from both sides but as always business will eventually pull enough strings to make the agencies see sense.

Just recently we have seen it said many times that leave voters on here said that the EU needed us more than we needed them which I don't remember being said. I have said, as have others, that it is better for both parties to work together and both would benefit from doing so rather than trying to make life difficult. The EU is undoubtedly better off having a good trade relationship with the UK just as the UK is undoubtedly better off having a good trade relationship with the EU, which needs the other more is just playground nonsense.

As for the deal it was always dependant on those brokering it and would undoubtedly have been better without the Remain supporting politicians hamstringing the negotiators at every opportunity. It isn't a great deal but it is what we have to work with and with a bit of common sense applied could work well enough to allow the vast majority to trade without issues. However common sense and government agencies of any nationality are words that are rarely combined in the same sentence until somebody twists their arm.

No mention from remain supporters about the EU asking for more time to ratify the deal, imagine if it were the other way around as the 'inefficiency of the UK government' would be headline news.

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1 hour ago, Vince said:

Yeah that is a very nice line in sarcasm but forgets to address which regulations and standards we have changed since leaving. you may have missed it but that was the question!

It's irrelevant whether anything has changed or not.

Probably nothing has changed as yet, but the UK insisted on the right to diverge from (most) EU regulations from 1 January 2021. So the EU has every right from 1 January 2021 to say that products entering their markets can no longer be guaranteed those standards.

If the UK felt that its products continue to meet EU standards then it should have agreed to continue to meet those standards, at least for a further transition period to give UK businesses time to adjust. But Boris and the other Brexit loonies insisted on making clean break after 31 December, despite UK businesses having 8 days notice, so these are consequences.

The EU is doing exactly what the UK insisted on doing - applying its own regulations - and whether it's right, fair or applies common sense is utterly irrelevant. The UK claimed it didn't need the EU, that the EU needed the UK more than the other way round, and yet Brexiteers are bleating that they can no longer easily export things anymore. Welcome to the realities of Brexit.. :rolleyes:

You seem to be brighter than the average Brexiteer, so I really don't understand what you're not getting about this. :D

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The deal should always have been easier than for other third countries because all the regulations were already in line, that hasn't changed, we agreed not to reduce any standards but still life is currently being made more difficult than it need be. 

And it would have been, had not the Brextremist insisted on becoming a third country with the right to diverge on standards. Now the country needs to live with the consequences of the decisions made by its government... :rolleyes:

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No mention from remain supporters about the EU asking for more time to ratify the deal, imagine if it were the other way around as the 'inefficiency of the UK government' would be headline news.

I think they're perfectly reasonably applying more rigorous scrutiny to the agreement than the UK Parliament (who had one day) were able to. And unlike the UK, they're processes are more democratic in that their elected representatives do have to have an approval vote. 

Many treaties and agreements aren't ratified for ages after they're signed. Nothing unusual about that at all, but Brexiteers are of course desperately clutching at straws at the moment... 

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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1 hour ago, Phlipphlopp said:

You best tell covid that.

Many businesses are also not affected by COVID, but are affected by Brexit. :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It's irrelevant whether anything has changed or not.

Probably nothing has changed as yet, but the UK insisted on the right to diverge from (most) EU regulations from 1 January 2021. So the EU has every right from 1 January 2021 to say that products entering their markets can no longer be guaranteed those standards.

Except that if they haven't changed their standards and the deal agrees that ours won't be lowered it's not applicable is it.

If the UK felt that its products continue to meet EU standards then it should have agreed to continue to meet those standards, at least for a further transition period to give UK businesses time to adjust. But Boris and the other Brexit loonies insisted on making clean break after 31 December, despite UK businesses having 8 days notice, so these are consequences.

It did agree to not lower standards so see above! There was a lot more than 8 days notice in reality because most preparation could be put in place well before the final deal, we never changed anything in the last month.

The EU is doing exactly what the UK insisted on doing - applying its own regulations - and whether it's right, fair or applies common sense is utterly irrelevant. The UK claimed it didn't need the EU, that the EU needed the UK more than the other way round, and yet Brexiteers are bleating that they can no longer easily export things anymore. Welcome to the realities of Brexit.. :rolleyes:

Of course to those businesses that are suffering both sides of the channel, right, fair and common sense would be the most important thing of all. In the case of the way HMRC is/was applying the VAT rules for instance as well as the way some EU countries are deliberately making life difficult is not only wrong but short sighted. Of course this isn't the first time by any means that the cross channel traffic has been hit hard by the French so being in or out of the EU doesn't seem to make much difference there.

You seem to be brighter than the average Brexiteer, so I really don't understand what you're not getting about this. :D

What I'm not getting is the need to deliberately make things more difficult than they should be although I'm not surprised. Totally beyond me is how your criticism can be so one sided, clearly you are reasonably clever so I would expect you'd be capable of recognising your extreme bias :D

And it would have been, had not the Brextremist insisted on becoming a third country with the right to diverge on standards. Now the country needs to live with the consequences of the decisions made by its government... :rolleyes:

You'd have been laughing at them if we had left but agreed to meet all future standards regardless

I think they're perfectly reasonably applying more rigorous scrutiny to the agreement than the UK Parliament (who had one day) were able to. And unlike the UK, they're processes are more democratic in that their elected representatives do have to have an approval vote. 

Many treaties and agreements aren't ratified for ages after they're signed. Nothing unusual about that at all, but Brexiteers are of course desperately clutching at straws at the moment... 

Of course you think it's reasonable, it's on the other side of the channel :rolleyes: 4 years putting a deal together but it appears nobody in the EU knew what it entailed and only had to check the most recent changes.

 

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14 minutes ago, Vince said:

Of course to those businesses that are suffering both sides of the channel, right, fair and common sense would be the most important thing of all. In the case of the way HMRC is/was applying the VAT rules for instance as well as the way some EU countries are deliberately making life difficult is not only wrong but short sighted. Of course this isn't the first time by any means that the cross channel traffic has been hit hard by the French so being in or out of the EU doesn't seem to make much difference there.

It was not common sense for the UK to leave the EU, nor to diverge from common standards. That was entirely the choice of the UK, so there's no point now complaining that the EU isn't showing 'common sense' because UK didn't want to follow the rules that apply to everyone else. 

No idea what French industrial disputes or third-party protests have to do with implementation of trade regulations actually agreed by the UK, not to mention that a great deal of shipping goes via the Netherlands as well. That's nothing but whataboutery.

 

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32 minutes ago, Vince said:

Except that if they haven't changed their standards and the deal agrees that ours won't be lowered it's not applicable is it.

If the UK in practice already had lower standards whilst it was in the EU - such as supplying shell fish from less than clean waters - but was able to influence the implementation of those standards, then of course it will automatically have lower standards the moment it left the Single Market. In reality, I suspect it was just a monumental screw-up by the UK government who clearly failed to understand the implications of the trade deal on the fishing industry, or negotiate in provisions, despite claiming that it was at the forefront of its considerations. :rolleyes:

I doubt you really care anyway so long as your own industry is alright jack, even if it does sum up what incompetent idiots you voted into power... 

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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35 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

 

I doubt you really care anyway so long as your own industry is alright jack, even if it does sum up what incompetent idiots you voted into power... 

AS opposed to voting for Corbyn

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

 

I doubt you really care anyway so long as your own industry is alright jack, even if it does sum up what incompetent idiots you voted into power... 

Spoken like a true Limp Dem. You make me laugh if nothing else :D:D

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56 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

AS opposed to voting for Corbyn

Corbyn wasn't responsible for negotiating the ridiculous trade deal. Claiming that he might have done worse is nothing than typical right wing whataboutery.

You have to own what you voted for.

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5 minutes ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Spoken like a true Limp Dem. 

What makes you think I'm a LibDem, Limp or otherwise...? :rolleyes:

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