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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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7 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

What makes you think I'm a LibDem, Limp or otherwise...? :rolleyes:

Just a guess. In the same way you assume Vince voted for the tories. Talking about those Libdem nutters , they put up a stall at the bottom of Taunton High St a couple of years ago spouting crap and handing out leaflets, rejoin blah blah blah.  I parked my van , quite legit about 6 inches from the front of their stall. The banter was hilarious and they soon packed up and went home , direct democracy in action :D

Edited by Phlipphlopp

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It was not common sense for the UK to leave the EU, nor to diverge from common standards. That was entirely the choice of the UK, so there's no point now complaining that the EU isn't showing 'common sense' because UK didn't want to follow the rules that apply to everyone else. 

No idea what French industrial disputes or third-party protests have to do with implementation of trade regulations actually agreed by the UK, not to mention that a great deal of shipping goes via the Netherlands as well. That's nothing but whataboutery.

 

Obviously that is entirely a matter of opinion, in mine being in the EU was making less sense as time went on. 

Not just industrial protests but refusal to follow EU regulations when it suits, such as refusing to allow British Beef in for a long time after they were ordered to. It has to do with the very valid point that trade disruption also happened while we were in the EU too.

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

If the UK in practice already had lower standards whilst it was in the EU - such as supplying shell fish from less than clean waters - but was able to influence the implementation of those standards, then of course it will automatically have lower standards the moment it left the Single Market. In reality, I suspect it was just a monumental screw-up by the UK government who clearly failed to understand the implications of the trade deal on the fishing industry, or negotiate in provisions, despite claiming that it was at the forefront of its considerations. :rolleyes:

I doubt you really care anyway so long as your own industry is alright jack, even if it does sum up what incompetent idiots you voted into power... 

Very important that first word. So you do agree then that if we met the standards set out by the EU throughout our membership and those standards haven't changed then all this disruption is unnecessary?

In reality, I suspect - there's a nonsense of exactly the type you accuse the UK government of, it's one or the other. Of course the EU also do that sort of nonsense all the time as well but you will allow that.

As for the last sentence of course I care about my own industry, most of my comments are about that not because I don't care about anything else but because very often I don't know enough about it to comment. The ability to use Google and pretend you know all about everything doesn't make you a more caring person HA.

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I shouldnt laugh but......:D
 

The front page of Bild, Germany’s best read newspaper, this morning was emblazoned with a large Union Jack and the words “Dear Britain, we envy you” written across it. Accompanying text read that “the English have announced their return to normality on June 21… and here there’s no hope”. The paper noted that a total of 17.7 million Brits have been jabbed, compared to just 3.4 million in Germany.

Bild went on to say that as Boris announced the UK’s great relaxation plan to get things normal by June, Angela Merkel told the Bundestag “We cannot define away the fact that we now have a third wave.” Her Chancellery chief Helge Braun went on to add that in Germany “March, April and May” would be “difficult months”. By contrast Boris’s plan sees almost everything other than nightclubs back in May.

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15 minutes ago, Vince said:

The ability to use Google and pretend you know all about everything doesn't make you a more caring person HA.

Maybe working around Europe and the World, as well as shipping equipment, transferring monies and having to deal with multiple regulatory regimes actually does give me some insight into how these things work. I can for example, often spot when you're being economical with the facts about transport industry, whether it's intended or not. 

You're right though - I don't particularly care about those who voted for Brexit and who now find themselves the hardest hit by it. Most would be older mature adults and need to take responsibility for the decisions they made rather than complain now because they didn't fully understand the consequences. Remainers did point much of this out, but were endlessly dismissed, ridiculed and insulted, but the chickens have come home to roost and now can't be exported... :D

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2 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Maybe working around Europe and the World, as well as shipping equipment, transferring monies and having to deal with multiple regulatory regimes actually does give me some insight into how these things work. I can for example, often spot when you're being economical with the facts about transport industry, whether it's intended or not. 

You're right though - I don't particularly care about those who voted for Brexit and who now find themselves the hardest hit by it. Most would be older mature adults and need to take responsibility for the decisions they made rather than complain now because they didn't fully understand the consequences. Remainers did point much of this out, but were endlessly dismissed, ridiculed and insulted, but the chickens have come home to roost and now can't be exported... :D

A very arrogant post HA ( thinking he is superior ).    talking down to people when it was there own decision to be made.Brexit happened for a reason your reasoning must be that everyone who voted to  leave are totally clueless and need to be told  so. Even after this sham of a Covid period many MORE people now can see the EU for what they really are an organisation going where? nowhere .I've always maintained the EU needed us more than than we needed them and we  will show that slowly of course in the future.But will the EU be around in ten years time??? probably not realistically speaking they are down to there last fag end living off scraps.

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3 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Maybe working around Europe and the World, as well as shipping equipment, transferring monies and having to deal with multiple regulatory regimes actually does give me some insight into how these things work. I can for example, often spot when you're being economical with the facts about transport industry, whether it's intended or not. 

You're right though - I don't particularly care about those who voted for Brexit and who now find themselves the hardest hit by it. Most would be older mature adults and need to take responsibility for the decisions they made rather than complain now because they didn't fully understand the consequences. Remainers did point much of this out, but were endlessly dismissed, ridiculed and insulted, but the chickens have come home to roost and now can't be exported... :D

and outvoted as it is with democracies. :D

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4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

A very arrogant post HA ( thinking he is superior ).    talking down to people when it was there own decision to be made.Brexit happened for a reason your reasoning must be that everyone who voted to  leave are totally clueless and need to be told  

Your  a good advert for that.point of view .

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11 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Maybe working around Europe and the World, as well as shipping equipment, transferring monies and having to deal with multiple regulatory regimes actually does give me some insight into how these things work. I can for example, often spot when you're being economical with the facts about transport industry, whether it's intended or not. 

You keep saying this but not what I have said that is wrong. What I do know for sure is that when it comes to road haulage you speak with a great deal of authority but very little actual knowledge. That in turn makes me wonder how much genuine knowledge you have in other areas that I don't know much about.

Nice list but shipping equipment could mean anything from attaching labels onto a box to arranging transport, packaging, customs clearances and so on, same with transferring money something many of us have done between countries. When I transfer money it is a dead simple process whether domestically or internationally, I couldn't claim it gives me any expertise in the international money markets or international economics. I bought a night heater from China the other week so I also dealt with multi regulatory regimes, again without needing any expertise whatever.

It's all about the level at which you do these things and as far as road haulage goes my missus would run rings around you and the only thing she has ever done is price and book work for me nearly 40 years ago!

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2 hours ago, Vince said:

You keep saying this but not what I have said that is wrong. What I do know for sure is that when it comes to road haulage you speak with a great deal of authority but very little actual knowledge. That in turn makes me wonder how much genuine knowledge you have in other areas that I don't know much about.

Very good.  :D

Humph is very Google-esque.

..... apart from when it comes to listing the “top ten indispensable products that we can get only from the EU”.

Apparently Google hasn’t caught up with that assertion.  :rofl:

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43 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Very good.  :D

Humph is very Google-esque.

..... apart from when it comes to listing the “top ten indispensable products that we can get only from the EU”.

Apparently Google hasn’t caught up with that assertion.  :rofl:

Your original question was asking about products coming from the EU that couldn't be produced in the UK. We still haven't got beyond where I can buy UK-grown oranges... :rolleyes:

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31 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Your original question was asking about products coming from the EU that couldn't be produced in the UK. We still haven't got beyond where I can buy UK-grown oranges... :rolleyes:

Was it?

I could have sworn it was along the lines of name ten things we get from the EU we can't get elsewhere. Nothing to do with producing in the UK.

Edited by Vincent Blachshadow
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4 hours ago, Vince said:

You keep saying this but not what I have said that is wrong.

Just an example:

1) You claimed that pre-Single Market, trucks used to travel across Europe without having to go through customs. That was only correct in that you were referring to goods in transit under the TIR system, and still had to clear customs at their destination country. 

2) You claimed that pre-Brexit, trucks still had to stop at customs to check for illegal immigrants so other checks wouldn't be so onerous. When it fact you were referring to sticking a CO2 probe in the trailer for a few seconds.

3) You claimed that most goods coming into the UK from outside the EU were never customs checked, therefore that there was no need for these on the Irish border. You failed to mention that much of this is containerised coming from established shippers and suppliers into a handful of ports, where a few extra hours won't make a lot of difference, and where it's much easier to regulate than hundreds of vans that can just be driven over the border.  

4) You told us that pre-EU, trucks always travelled to the Europe and it was just a matter of 'filling in some paperwork'. You failed to mention there were far fewer trucks doing that, there was a limited (and inadequate) number of permits that also restricted who could enter the market, you were restricted to specific periods, routes and destinations, and that the world has moved on since those days with more requirements for driver qualifications. 

5) You told us that custom checks were not needed between the UK and Ireland as this could be done electronically these days, failing to explain how you regulate someone sticking something into the back of a white van. You got that one completely wrong.

6) Not related to haulage from memory, but I vaguely recall there was something about Tescos that Orion called you out on.

Despite not having a haulage background, I've known about the TIR system since I was about 10 when I wondered what the blue plates were on the back on tracks - long before Google existed. Yet, despite you being in haulage for years, it seems you've never bothered to really understand how customs regimes work, which does make me wonder about some of your claims. :D

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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4 hours ago, Vince said:

When I transfer money it is a dead simple process whether domestically or internationally

Try transferring money to Tajikistan then (or getting foreign currency out of a bank there), to an NGO that isn't registered as a foreign agent in certain countries, or even from the UK to an Australian company if it's over a certain amount. For that matter, try opening a euro denominated account with a UK bank these days. 

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2 hours ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

Was it?

I could have sworn it was along the lines of name ten things we get from the EU we can't get elsewhere. Nothing to do with producing in the UK.

Spot on.

Humph is now trying to hide his shame by echoing his lesser acolytes, like Iris and jrs, who poked fun at my suggestion that the UK should try to become more self-sufficient.

After all it was only in about 1990 that we produced 80% of our food compared to 50% now, wasn’t it?

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32 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Humph is now trying to hide his shame by echoing his lesser acolytes, like Iris and jrs, who poked fun at my suggestion that the UK should try to become more self-sufficient. After all it was only in about 1990 that we produced 80% of our food compared to 50% now, wasn’t it?

Right, so you've confirmed that did ask what products the UK got from the EU that can't be produced in the UK.

As for 1990 compared to now, there's all sorts of food and drink products that are popular now that weren't then - I daresay even Somerset Brie in some circles. But if you'd still be happy with only being able to buy Liebfraumilch and Blue Nun in a supermarket then good luck to you, but the rest of us long moved on from that... 

And I'm still waiting for the answer about oranges. :D

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