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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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1 minute ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

And I'm still waiting for the answer about oranges. :D

orion tried being clever about that saying Terry's , not knowing they are actually produced in Spain. Another of his not so clever replies on here , which are numerous :D

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20 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Right, so you've confirmed that did ask what products the UK got from the EU that can't be produced in the UK.

As for 1990 compared to now, there's all sorts of food and drink products that are popular now that weren't then - I daresay even Somerset Brie in some circles. But if you'd still be happy with only being able to buy Liebfraumilch and Blue Nun in a supermarket then good luck to you, but the rest of us long moved on from that... 

And I'm still waiting for the answer about oranges. :D

No, I didn’t.

It was you who said we won’t be able to access the numerous “indispensablel products produced only by the EU.

But then you couldn’t name any.  :rofl:

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2 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Just an example:

1) You claimed that pre-Single Market, trucks used to travel across Europe without having to go through customs. That was only correct in that you were referring to goods in transit under the TIR system, and still had to clear customs at their destination country. 

I certainly didn't claim that, sometimes TIR trucks were stopped and checked. There were then lists of companies that were trustworthy or not, those that were trusted were stopped very infrequently (just the same way VOSA do now). Of course they had to clear customs at their destination but generally it was a case of walking into a building, getting a stamp and walking out. 

2) You claimed that pre-Brexit, trucks still had to stop at customs to check for illegal immigrants so other checks wouldn't be so onerous. When it fact you were referring to sticking a CO2 probe in the trailer for a few seconds.

Some trucks were checked quickly with a probe, others more thoroughly. If you had a clue you would know that the probe takes seconds but that isn't what takes the time out of the journey.

3) You claimed that most goods coming into the UK from outside the EU were never customs checked, therefore that there was no need for these on the Irish border. You failed to mention that much of this is containerised coming from established shippers and suppliers into a handful of ports, where a few extra hours won't make a lot of difference, and where it's much easier to regulate than hundreds of vans that can just be driven over the border.  

I thought it was general knowledge that most of the non EU traffic is containerised, fact is it still comes in without many containers being checked. Not sure how much vans come under the heading of International Road haulage in terms of comparable freight moved! 

4) You told us that pre-EU, trucks always travelled to the Europe and it was just a matter of 'filling in some paperwork'. You failed to mention there were far fewer trucks doing that, there was a limited (and inadequate) number of permits that also restricted who could enter the market, you were restricted to specific periods, routes and destinations, and that the world has moved on since those days with more requirements for driver qualifications. 

trucks did travel throughout Europe and got the freight to it's destinations by having the paperwork filled out correctly. Fill out the paperwork correctly now and groupage is moving easily and freely into and out of Europe. Driver qualifications are aligned, it has been agreed licences are acceptable throughout Europe so it makes make no difference to movement of freight.

5) You told us that custom checks were not needed between the UK and Ireland as this could be done electronically these days, failing to explain how you regulate someone sticking something into the back of a white van. You got that one completely wrong.

It could be done electronically, same way all the largest parcel carriers keep track of millions of items daily now. That it isn't being done doesn't mean it couldn't be. How was somebody chucking something in the back of a van regulated pre- Brexit? It's original source could have been anywhere in the world

6) Not related to haulage from memory, but I vaguely recall there was something about Tescos that Orion called you out on.

Now you're really dredging the bottom of the barrel. Orion called me out on something I said about Tesco's because at the time I wouldn't say which branch because I didn't want it to come back on the manager involved. Orion claimed to know two Tesco area managers and kept shouting about how he could get it checked out. However when the manager left and I said which branch it was Orion never said another word on the subject. Relying on the truthfulness of somebody with multiple user names whose only contribution to the forum is continual fishing really shows how desperate this post by you is.

Despite not having a haulage background, I've known about the TIR system since I was about 10 when I wondered what the blue plates were on the back on tracks - long before Google existed. Yet, despite you being in haulage for years, it seems you've never bothered to really understand how customs regimes work, which does make me wonder about some of your claims. :D

I understand how customs regimes work in relation to Road Haulage unfortunately you are completely unable to accept that you know nothing on the subject you haven't looked up on the internet.

This whole post just points out that I have made general comments on the subject rather than crossed every T and dotted every I. Like most people I post assuming that common sense will be applied by the reader. It's a fact that I know far more than you do or almost certainly ever will about the practical aspects of moving freight by road both domestically and Internationally, I even have qualifications to prove it. That's to be expected since I have been involved one way or another in the industry for decades, you being unable to accept that says a lot about your sense of superiority.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Vince said:

Humph haulaged, drawn and quartered.

Ouch.  :D

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28 minutes ago, Vince said:

I understand how customs regimes work in relation to Road Haulage unfortunately you are completely unable to accept that you know nothing on the subject you haven't looked up on the internet.

You are no more able to accept that I know about stuff that I haven't looked up on the Internet, not to mention that one needs to know what to look up on the Internet in the first place!

I'm quite confident based on the discussions we've had, that I know as much if not more than yourself about custom regimes. That is based on experience of crossing many borders around the world, arranging for equipment (and sometimes carrying it myself) to be delivered, and just having an interest in how such things work.  

The fact I've previously stated things that have subsequently had to be implement post-Brexit, whereas the things you claimed have not, is sufficient evidence of that. That you're now claiming that you left out crucial details in your explanations on the grounds that readers would have the common sense to fill in the left out bits, is really digging yourself a hole. Mind you, that was the Brexit strategy all along... :D

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3 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

You are no more able to accept that I know about stuff that I haven't looked up on the Internet, not to mention that one needs to know what to look up on the Internet in the first place!

I'm quite confident based on the discussions we've had, that I know as much if not more than yourself about custom regimes. That is based on experience of crossing many borders around the world, arranging for equipment (and sometimes carrying it myself) to be delivered, and just having an interest in how such things work.  

The fact I've previously stated things that have subsequently had to be implement post-Brexit, whereas the things you claimed have not, is sufficient evidence of that. That you're now claiming that you left out crucial details in your explanations on the grounds that readers would have the common sense to fill in the left out bits, is really digging yourself a hole. Mind you, that was the Brexit strategy all along... :D

Yet again you forget to mention that I only said customs regimes in relation to Road Haulage. I don't feel the need to think I know more about everything than somebody else! 

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Just now, Vince said:

Yet again you forget to mention that I only said customs regimes in relation to Road Haulage. I don't feel the need to think I know more about everything than somebody else! 

Ouch again.

Humph’s bum is looking pretty red again today.  :D

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55 minutes ago, Vince said:

Not sure how much vans come under the heading of International Road haulage in terms of comparable freight moved! 

How was somebody chucking something in the back of a van regulated pre- Brexit? It's original source could have been anywhere in the world

You will be perfectly aware that even if many things that travel into a country actually go unchecked, there needs to be the threat of checks at a control point, which invariably needs to be a port of entry whether that's a ferry or airport. Otherwise smuggling and non-compliance with standards would quickly become fairly rampant. Why bother with paperwork if there's absolutely no chance of being caught and/or having your goods seized?

Where there are two different customs, tariffs and regulatory regimes next door to each other, that have a long border with many uncontrolled crossings (e.g. the Irish border), that will even more incentivise the illicit movement of goods. Yes, trucks are pretty heavily regulated, usually belong to established haulage companies, and are subject to certain spot checks en-route anyway, and therefore you *might* conceivably be able to use video cameras and other intelligence to avoid routine border controls. However, you can chuck a lot of high value products (e.g. cigarettes and alcohol) in the back of a largely anonymous panel van which is much larger to keep tabs on, and that's exactly what would happen across the Irish border.

I'm not sure why I have to be explaining this to you of all people.

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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On 2/22/2021 at 9:11 AM, Vince said:

 

As for agricultural vehicles there are huge numbers that are not road registered and even more that applies to heavy plant.

 

A simple point that Hump can’t grasp, nor does he understand the Statutory Off Road Notice. 

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5 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

You will be perfectly aware that even if many things that travel into a country actually go unchecked, there needs to be the threat of checks at a control point, which invariably needs to be a port of entry whether that's a ferry or airport. Otherwise smuggling and non-compliance with standards would quickly become fairly rampant. Why bother with paperwork if there's absolutely no chance of being caught and/or having your goods seized?

 

What a load of old waffle. My firm has 2 planes from Cologne and 3 from the USA that arrive at EMA every night , and take off again after refuelling and loading freight going in the other direction. Nothing ever gets checked , ever. !0's of thousands of parcels. Yet you seem concerned about white van man sneaking some stuff into the RoI. Your bizarre take on borders is laughable.

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Just now, E I Addio said:

A simple point that Hump can’t grasp, nor does he understand the Statutory Off Road Notice. 

What has a SORN got to do with anything? In fact, you've yet again inadvertently highlighted how you could keep tabs on vehicles that aren't on the road. 

If the government decided, it could very easily keep tabs on all motorised vehicles whether on or off-road, just as it did with television sets. Any manufacturer or dealer selling a vehicle with a motor over a certain horsepower - whether internal combustion or electric - could be required to apply and register a vehicle identification number. That could be linked to an insurance policy or other requirements, or the owner would have to declare it was deactivated or scrapped similar to a SORN.

Of course you could always find loopholes, but as with a motor vehicle the onus would be on the driver to ensure it met the insurance requirements and would be in trouble if caught without. I certainly don't see why farm vehicles shouldn't have insurance, and probably many in the UK are covered by some sort of workplace and public liability policy anyway. 

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5 minutes ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Nothing ever gets checked , ever. 

I'm calling complete rubbish on that. :rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I'm calling complete rubbish on that. :rolleyes:

Call it what you like. Nothing gets checked. Who exactly is going to check your (and thousands of other) Amazon boxes to check its contents ? Nothing is ever opened. Ever. Let alone the other non Amazon freight.

Edited by Phlipphlopp

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6 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

What has a SORN got to do with anything? In fact, you've yet again inadvertently highlighted how you could keep tabs on vehicles that aren't on the road. 

If the government decided, it could very easily keep tabs on all motorised vehicles whether on or off-road, just as it did with television sets. Any manufacturer or dealer selling a vehicle with a motor over a certain horsepower - whether internal combustion or electric - could be required to apply and register a vehicle identification number. That could be linked to an insurance policy or other requirements, or the owner would have to declare it was deactivated or scrapped similar to a SORN.

Of course you could always find loopholes, but as with a motor vehicle the onus would be on the driver to ensure it met the insurance requirements and would be in trouble if caught without. I certainly don't see why farm vehicles shouldn't have insurance, and probably many in the UK are covered by some sort of workplace and public liability policy anyway. 

“If....could.......probably.”

Says it all. 

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55 minutes ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Call it what you like. Nothing gets checked. Who exactly is going to check your (and thousands of other) Amazon boxes to check its contents ? Nothing is ever opened. Ever. Let alone the other non Amazon freight.

I’d take a guess they’re checked before take off ? 

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