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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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22 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

The ones who should be scrutinised are those who were allowed to pull off the political heist that was Brexit.

I don't blame or not blame those who didn't vote as I think people should have the right not to vote if they choose, but the manner in which the referendum was set-up was a farce. Constitutional change should never be enacted on simple pluralities because unlike general elections where the electorate can (and indeed often does) change it's mind every few years, you're usually stuck with the consequences of constitutional change for a generation. Which is why countries with more experience of constitutional change and public referenda, invariably insist on supermajority or qualified majority voting, and I'd say exactly the same if it were a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish independence vote. 

I think it's reasonably clear that the vast majority of the public had little clue about the intricacies of EU and global trade, the Irish border problem, or even the realities of how reliant the UK economy was on EU migrants. They were told - multiple times by Brexit-supporting ministers - that the UK wouldn't lose out on EU trade whilst new trade would be developed with the 'rest of the world', that immigration would be controlled whilst failing to mention the corresponding detrimental consequences for British citizens, and that the UK would own all "its" fish without mentioning that it actually needed access to EU markets to sell most of it. Then there was all the rubbish about 'technological solutions' meaning there wouldn't need to be an Irish border etc.. also without explaining exactly how you'd prevent migration over an uncontrolled border. 

It was a litany of lies and misinformation that was swallowed wholeheartedly by those who wanted to believe it, even though it was pretty obvious to some of us what a load of rubbish it all was. And whilst you might say most Remain supporters were equally ignorant about such things, they weren't actually voting to tear everything up without any real advantage. 

Brexiteers can claim all they like that they knew what they were voting for, but I seriously doubt they thought they were voting for the devastation of the fishing industry, a 40% reduction in EU exports, 1.6 trillion pounds leaving the country in capital flight, a 10% contraction in the economy (the highest in recorded history), and rising costs due to increased bureaucracy and tariffs even before the full implementation of the Brexit Agreement has kicked in (which comes in April). We're now well into Project Reality, but the biggest reality was it was all so predictable...

I would agree and both sides were equally to blame.

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3 hours ago, MARK246 said:

Go and look at Nigel Farage's Facebook page, thousands of comments from leave voters, all saying the same.

If they knew an out vote wouldn't stop illegal immigrants, they wouldn't have voted for out.

Well I am not on Facebook as I have more constructive interests but in view of your post I Googled it. As far as I could see all there was in the last few days was a video showing that another 200 illegal come-overs arrived yesterday, looking for their free board and keep.

You reckon there were THOUSANDS of comments from leave voters all saying the same ?  Really. ? Sounds to me like a bit of Hump -style hyperbole there. 

I think even the dimmest of leave voters would know illegal immigration is nothing to do with FOM.

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on :approve:

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1 hour ago, Grachan said:

Isn't that rather adding to the theory that a lot of Leave voters aren't very intelligent?

More likely adding to the theory that Mark 246 isn’t very intelligent, if he expects to believe that there are thousands of comments on Farages Facebook all saying the same thing. 

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15 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

More likely adding to the theory that Mark 246 isn’t very intelligent, if he expects to believe that there are thousands of comments on Farages Facebook all saying the same thing. 

With out insulting anyones intelligence, there are now over 6,000 comments on Nigel Farage's March 31st Facebook post.

The post that was showing the latest asylum seekers arriving in the UK, I suggest you could read some.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MARK246 said:

With out insulting anyones intelligence, there are now over 6,000 comments on Nigel Farage's March 31st Facebook post.

The post that was showing the latest asylum seekers arriving in the UK, I suggest you could read some.

I don’t doubt there are thousands of posts of various types  on his Facebook. What I doubt, is your claim that they all say the same thing, namely they wouldn’t have voted leave if they had known it wouldn’t stop illegal immigration.

Ive seen Farages post , in fact several of them with pictures of illegal immigration, Ive seen his posts about Scottish independence, and Ive seen posts from people saying they think Farage did a great job getting us out of the EU ( in their opinion ). What I can’t find is not a single post from people saying they wouldn’t have voted leave if they knew it wouldn’t stop illegal immigration, so where are all these thousands of posts you are referring to, so where are they ?

Edited by E I Addio
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23 hours ago, MARK246 said:

With out insulting anyones intelligence, there are now over 6,000 comments on Nigel Farage's March 31st Facebook post.

The post that was showing the latest asylum seekers arriving in the UK, I suggest you could read some.

Seen much the same..We could control are own boarders they said.

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My  brother in law and sister in law voted leave:

(1) T hey are unelected and unaccountable

(2) We should have control of our borders.

All true but still fail to see how we are better off out.

 

Despite what Brexiteers think we remainers do not think and have never thought that the EU was a paragon of virtue indeed in many ways it is deeply flawed.  Despite the above in a country with little or no British owned industry , it is difficult to see how we are better off out , or indeed just what are  the trade deals we can make when we have no home owned industry. 

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3 hours ago, Toto said:

Seen much the same..We could control are own boarders they said.

Its 'borders'. So much for remain loons being the intelligent ones. But then Toto is hardly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

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25 minutes ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Its 'borders'. So much for remain loons being the intelligent ones. But then Toto is hardly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Yes , and its "our" own not "are " own .

I thought he was running a guest house when he went on about his boarders.

 Don't they teach English in schools any more ?

 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Yes , and its "our" own not "are " own .

If you're going to pick others up on their grammar, at least be sure of your own... :rolleyes:

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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On 4/2/2021 at 10:27 AM, E I Addio said:

It does depend on how the question is asked , which is why the Express have now published a poll showing more support for staying out.

A poll commissioned by the Express can't be taken seriously. 

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3 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

If you're going to pick others up on their grammar, at least be sure of your own... :rolleyes:

I'll do me best Guv'nor but the point wusnt grammer it woz  'is spellin 

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3 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

A poll commissioned by the Express can't be taken seriously. 

Why not ? Because you dont like the result ? Every rag could do poll with the same result , and you'd still be on here saying it cant be taken seriously. PS: The only poll that counts was taken in 2016 :D

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On 4/2/2021 at 8:03 AM, DC2 said:

Well, you’ve certainly proved the point that Brexiteers have more patience than Remoaners, being happy to wait for the teething troubles and Covid to pass.  :)

You'll still be claiming that years from now.

There's absolutely no reason why food exports should have dropped so dramatically, and it's already pretty obvious to UK industry that the trade rules agreed by the UK government aren't going to make things easier in future. In fact, things will be even worse as further rules are due to be implemented, after the initial grace period.

That's even assuming the EU actually ratifies the trade agreement, towards which the UK government has already shown bad faith by breaking the Northern Ireland protocol. So could well be back to a no-deal scenario by the end of the year. 

No, I'm afraid it's already obvious Brexit has been a complete disaster, and many Brexit voters are starting to realise they've been had.... :D

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