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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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21 hours ago, Shrub said:

I do hope that the exporters of live shellfish can start trading (safely) with the EU again and I don't want to shoot the messenger, but so much of that statement in the Mail is total and utter cobblers. 

The EU didn't 'suddenly' ban live exports of shellfish; the agreement clearly states in black and white, in plain simple language  that only live bivalve molluscs from Grade A waters can be sent to the EU. Most of the UK's waters is Grade B and needs depuration  before consumption. Depuration plants cost around £100,000 to build a small one, add another 0 to build a facility with the capacity to deal with the numbers some exporters require, they take up a lot of space and certainly round here where I live they would never receive planning permission to build them. So the vast majority were shipped to the Netherlands where they do have the facilities.

Defra claimed that they had assurances from  the EU that they could continue to export with the right animal health certificates, but the Shellfish Association of Great Britain had been asking for sight of that legal advice and agreement between the EU and Defra since September 2019; they did not get to see it until the crisis point in February 2021 when they saw straight away the supposed agreement was flawed, as they had suspected all along.

It is also completely untrue to say that B grade shellfish are safe for direct consumption. Changing the grading overnight doesn't make them safe to eat and the oysters sold locally here continue to be purified in the small depuaration facility (more of a shed really!) we have on the island. I love my oysters, preferably raw and unadulterated but there's no way I'd eat one of our famous Mersea Natives unpurified.

I'll be very interested to see how we've suddenly got cleaner seas. The grading is based on E coli numbers per 100g of mollusc flesh. Grade A must have less than 230, Grade B less than 4,600 in 90% of samples and not exceeding 46,000 in the remaining 10% - a massive difference in quantities between the two grades.Testing occurs around 8 - 10 times a year, Grade A waters can lose that grading with one bad test, around here in North Essex with low lying marsh land, fast tides stirring sediment in shallow waters, sewage overflows and agricultural run off grade A has never been achieved apart from one or two unique creeks. For five different coastal counties to be upgraded in one foul swoop is unheard of. There is no question that manipulation of the system has occurred or we have lowered our food safety standards - something we were told would never happen with Brexit.

Sorry, you're on the wrong thread. That level of rational assessment and detail is misplaced here. Try and copy and paste something from the Bermuda Media or perhaps a Xenophobic meme....they always go down well. 

Must try harder! :rolleyes:

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12 hours ago, iris123 said:

Funny you should talk about oysters. My cousin and Aunt were eating oysters on the coast at Brancaster Staith yesterday !!!

But from what little I know on the subject the European oysters on the German coast have become pretty much extinct and replaced by pacific oysters

That's pretty much the same all over Europe, unfortunately. It used to be a poor man's food in Victorian times, they were cheap and plentiful and reputedly they used to sell half a billion a year through Billingsgate fish market. Where it started going wrong for them here was all the lovely untreated sewage being pumped into the rivers, overfishing and the massive amount of shell and gravel extraction from the sea for building work in Victorian times; they need a gravelly sea bed to grab onto when mature and they lost that in many areas. The really hard winters in '47 and '63 hit them hard then a parasite arrived and virtually wiped them out. The Pacifics were introduced in the '70's to replace them, they're bigger and much hardier and are ready to sell  within a year and can be eaten all year round, whereas the natives take 3 - 4 years, can only be taken in winter ('r' in the month) and are sensitive to any changes in environment  - but are so much more tastier!.

The local oystermen have done a brilliant job of re-building stocks here and they get on really well with the conservationists that are monitoring numbers and practices; there's none of the antagonism you usually find between two such parties. Mersea, Whitstable and Falmouth are the only native oyster fisheries left now. The established populations are resistant to the parasite now but fears of spreading it to any small, un-fished non resistant colonies has made it difficult to re-build numbers elsewhere, but the Pacific seems happy pretty much everywhere and the oystermen make more money from them due to their speed of growth and easy going nature, so the situation isn't likely to change.

Apologies for going a bit David Attenborough there, but I find oysters and pretty much anything that lives in the sea so fascinating!

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It is as I said something on the periphery of my knowledge and interest. But it is something over the past few years I have tried to delve into. Living not far from the Waddon Sea. And having visited it often. Mostly bird watching, catching the sun and sea air and escaping the hustle of city life

It is alway wonderful to read posts from people with more knowledge on these subjects, so no need to apologise 

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12 hours ago, Shrub said:

That's pretty much the same all over Europe, unfortunately. It used to be a poor man's food in Victorian times, they were cheap and plentiful and reputedly they used to sell half a billion a year through Billingsgate fish market. Where it started going wrong for them here was all the lovely untreated sewage being pumped into the rivers, overfishing and the massive amount of shell and gravel extraction from the sea for building work in Victorian times; they need a gravelly sea bed to grab onto when mature and they lost that in many areas. The really hard winters in '47 and '63 hit them hard then a parasite arrived and virtually wiped them out. The Pacifics were introduced in the '70's to replace them, they're bigger and much hardier and are ready to sell  within a year and can be eaten all year round, whereas the natives take 3 - 4 years, can only be taken in winter ('r' in the month) and are sensitive to any changes in environment  - but are so much more tastier!.

The local oystermen have done a brilliant job of re-building stocks here and they get on really well with the conservationists that are monitoring numbers and practices; there's none of the antagonism you usually find between two such parties. Mersea, Whitstable and Falmouth are the only native oyster fisheries left now. The established populations are resistant to the parasite now but fears of spreading it to any small, un-fished non resistant colonies has made it difficult to re-build numbers elsewhere, but the Pacific seems happy pretty much everywhere and the oystermen make more money from them due to their speed of growth and easy going nature, so the situation isn't likely to change.

Apologies for going a bit David Attenborough there, but I find oysters and pretty much anything that lives in the sea so fascinating!

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Actually pretty interesting...

Prob should DM you this...but others may find it interesting/useful too.

More than once last summer, I foraged shellfish at nearby Shaldon in South Devon...mussels, cockles and oysters. I steam them open in some white wine and they are dee-liciois. The ones that don't open, I don't eat. Am I on safe ground? 

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10 hours ago, falcace said:

Actually pretty interesting...

Prob should DM you this...but others may find it interesting/useful too.

More than once last summer, I foraged shellfish at nearby Shaldon in South Devon...mussels, cockles and oysters. I steam them open in some white wine and they are dee-liciois. The ones that don't open, I don't eat. Am I on safe ground? 

Well you're not dead yet!

You're fine because you're cooking them, that will kill any potential nasties in them and avoiding unopened ones is a good backup. Oysters generally are more of a problem in the food chain because most are eaten raw. It's supposed to be even safer in the winter or in months with an 'r' in them, the theory being there's usually more bacteria in the water during the warmer months. They also spawn in the summer so the commercial fishermen leave them alone, but you taking a few isn't going to make a difference. I did have a quick peak at the map for Teign and it's all grade B waters

There's not many better freebie meals than the one you described! Hope you get to enjoy some more this summer! 

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Shrub said:

Well you're not dead yet!

You're fine because you're cooking them, that will kill any potential nasties in them and avoiding unopened ones is a good backup. Oysters generally are more of a problem in the food chain because most are eaten raw. It's supposed to be even safer in the winter or in months with an 'r' in them, the theory being there's usually more bacteria in the water during the warmer months. They also spawn in the summer so the commercial fishermen leave them alone, but you taking a few isn't going to make a difference. I did have a quick peak at the map for Teign and it's all grade B waters

There's not many better freebie meals than the one you described! Hope you get to enjoy some more this summer! 

:) Thanks very much and for the kind words. It is strangely satisfying foraging for your meals....be it shellfish or berries. Tastes great too :t:

Edited by falcace
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8 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Makes you wonder what else Dyson was promised to be a cheerleader for Brexit... :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56819137

Tory sleaze gradually unravelling. 

LOTS of things you can accuse Boris of doing wrong but this isn't one of them. Read and digest the full story. And as an aside, James Dyson is back domiciled in the UK, paid over £100 million in tax and employs thousands here. 

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6 hours ago, falcace said:

:) Thanks very much and for the kind words. It is strangely satisfying over foraging for your meals....be it shellfish and berries. Tastes great too :t:

Switching from David Attenborough to Delia Smith, I spend a week every summer down in Torbay wreck fishing and a few years back I was talking to the B&B owner one day about cooking mussels and shellfish and she told me a traditional West Country version is to replace the wine with dry cider and the onions with leeks. It does work a treat, subtly different. Unless you Devonians think it's a waste of cider?!

Another recipe, when another angler wondered how edible conger eels are, she said get a big pot, place your eel section in the bottom and weigh it down with a large stone. Top up the pot with 3 bottles of red wine, cook, then throw away the eel, try eating the stone and drink the gravy...  

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Whatever one's thoughts about the postulated Super League, it was pretty outrageous for a Prime Minister - and a Tory one not even interested in football at that - to be telling private businesses how to run their industry. But of course, it would have been embarrassing as the UK pulls up the drawbridge on Europe, to have its major clubs seeing their future in Europe... :rolleyes:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/21/wednesday-evening-uk-news-briefingtodays-top-headlines-telegraph/

 

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16 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Makes you wonder what else Dyson was promised to be a cheerleader for Brexit... :rolleyes:

 

When defending allegations against one of the BLM leading figures, Hump said :- 

“ Come back when there’s any actually evidence of misappropriation of funds “

Its amazing how the desire for real  evidence disappears when the discussion switches  from a BLM matriarch to a Brexiteer ;)

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1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

When defending allegations against one of the BLM leading figures, Hump said :- 

“ Come back when there’s any actually evidence of misappropriation of funds “

Its amazing how the desire for real  evidence disappears when the discussion switches  from a BLM matriarch to a Brexiteer ;)

Making under-the-counter arrangements for avoiding tax is not misappropriation of funds, but is certainly distasteful.

There are many people working in industries essential to keeping the NHS and country running - including foreign doctors and nurses - but are they also getting tax breaks? I doubt it... :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Making under-the-counter arrangements for avoiding tax is not misappropriation of funds, but is certainly distasteful.

There are many people working in industries essential to keeping the NHS and country running - including foreign doctors and nurses - but are they also getting tax breaks? I doubt it... :rolleyes:

Have you actually bothered to ask what tax breaks Dyson was talking about ? It doesnt sound as if you have .

Anyway, lets get back to the question.  In the BLM case you wanted actual evidence of misappropriation of funds, and in another post went as far as to say the allegation was bordering on libelous.

So lets apply your own test. What actual evidence do you have of "what else Dyson was promised to be a cheerleader for Brexit ? Or are just floating a bit of speculation of the type you condemn ?

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