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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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As Europe is topical at the moment - I wondered how the good folk on this Forum would Vote in the upcoming Referendum?

 

Currently, if the Referendum were tomorrow I would definitely Vote to leave the European Union.

 

Anyone else care to share their views and Voting intentions?

 

In but it wont change anything, the 1% will still run things.

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Baroness Kinnock like all MEPs receive £175 turning up allowance on top of £70,000 salary. nice if you can get it!

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Baroness Kinnock like all MEPs receive £175 turning up allowance on top of £70,000 salary. nice if you can get it!

Because she's an MEP. You're comparing the equivalent of a Westminster MP to junior civil servants.

 

And MEPs get expenses because they have to live in Brussels (or Strasbourg) during European Parliamentary sessions. Even an Ibis or Hotel Inn Express costs nearly that much a night during the week in Brussels, and most jobs reimburse you for hotels if you're expected to work away from home.

 

And just as with Westminster MPs, £70,000 doesn't go far if you have to maintain properties in two places, especially Brussels. It's a good salary, but it's not exceptional for an international job.

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doesn't hurt to let people know these wages, it gives people the chance to compare it with a 28k fireman..

im sure Lady Kinnock earns her money,if all details of this Euro vote are put on the table, it helps people form a view. Wages

is a topic people seem to like to know


2004 glynis along with 194 other members of the European union signed in, only to leave straight away,

all claiming their £175 allowance money.....And now shes in the house of lords..typical

Edited by ColinMills

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doesn't hurt to let people know these wages, it gives people the chance to compare it with a 28k fireman..

There are many more firemen needed than parliamentary representatives (Westminster and European), but equally firemen don't need to be elected and usually have longer careers than most politicians.

 

What it comes down to though, is that if you don't pay a decent wage to parliamentary representatives, they'll use the job to make contacts and then vanish off to higher paid employment. They may in many cases already be giving up higher paid employment for what may amount to no more than a 4 or 5 year tenure, so pay significantly less and you'd mainly get young party apparatchiks who'd look to move elsewhere at the earliest opportunity.

 

Some MPs and MEPs are actually hard working too, but it seems the public would rather whinge and moan about others perceived to be earning more than them without knowing anything of what the job or costs of doing the job entail. Personally I think Westminster MPs have been slightly underpaid over the years, and it was quite clear that expenses were (wrongly) considered to be a supplementary salary.

 

AFAIK, MEPs are paid at the same level as the national MPs in their own countries, so the same argument could apply to them too. My feeling is that MEPs generally have fewer responsibilities than Westminster MPs, and probably have less constituency business as well (not least because most members of the public have no idea who they are), but that's ultimately down to the failure of both national governments and electorates to take the European Parliament seriously.

 

And with respect to firemen, in how many jobs do you work four days on and four days off, and can sleep at work on two of those?

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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Because she's an MEP. You're comparing the equivalent of a Westminster MP to junior civil servants.And MEPs get expenses because they have to live in Brussels (or Strasbourg) during European Parliamentary sessions. Even an Ibis or Hotel Inn Express costs nearly that much a night during the week in Brussels, and most jobs reimburse you for hotels if you're expected to work away from home.And just as with Westminster MPs, £70,000 doesn't go far if you have to maintain properties in two places, especially Brussels. It's a good salary, but it's not exceptional for an international job.

Are you for real Humph? most of these people have had a silver spoon anyway, you make out these people are doing us a favour really??
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Are you for real Humph? most of these people have had a silver spoon anyway, you make out these people are doing us a favour really??

I'd suggest the vast majority of MPs have not had a silver spoon, and the fact that 2/3rds of them had a state school education is probably evidence of that.

 

They're not doing us a favour - they're elected to do a job on our behalf. Some do it better than others, but we still need elected representatives to make the laws that govern our lives.

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I'd suggest the vast majority of MPs have not had a silver spoon, and the fact that 2/3rds of them had a state school education is probably evidence of that.They're not doing us a favour - they're elected to do a job on our behalf. Some do it better than others, but we still need elected representatives to make the laws that govern our lives.

How many come from secondary schools? not many i would suggest.

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There are many more firemen needed than parliamentary representatives (Westminster and European), but equally firemen don't need to be elected and usually have longer careers than most politicians.

 

What it comes down to though, is that if you don't pay a decent wage to parliamentary representatives, they'll use the job to make contacts and then vanish off to higher paid employment. They may in many cases already be giving up higher paid employment for what may amount to no more than a 4 or 5 year tenure, so pay significantly less and you'd mainly get young party apparatchiks who'd look to move elsewhere at the earliest opportunity.

 

Some MPs and MEPs are actually hard working too, but it seems the public would rather whinge and moan about others perceived to be earning more than them without knowing anything of what the job or costs of doing the job entail. Personally I think Westminster MPs have been slightly underpaid over the years, and it was quite clear that expenses were (wrongly) considered to be a supplementary salary.

 

AFAIK, MEPs are paid at the same level as the national MPs in their own countries, so the same argument could apply to them too. My feeling is that MEPs generally have fewer responsibilities than Westminster MPs, and probably have less constituency business as well (not least because most members of the public have no idea who they are), but that's ultimately down to the failure of both national governments and electorates to take the European Parliament seriously.

 

And with respect to firemen, in how many jobs do you work four days on and four days off, and can sleep at work on two of those?

Well in the context of this Discussion - you certainly can't say that about the Kinnocks.

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and 35% never went to school at all , they were home schooled in the nursery at their parents mansions

 

No, they went to independent schools, as it says in the link.

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I heard David Cameron speaking on the radio and what he said was that what we want is the benefits of the Common Market without ever closer political European Union.

 

Leaving aside the question of whether the Prime Minister can ever achieve this aim, the thing I don't understand is why we need to go beyond the benefits of the Common Market and work towards closer political union with Europe.

 

So, serious question: can anyone whe supports the idea of staying in explain in simple laguage why we need closer political union with Europe in addition to the benefits of merely having a common market for trading purposes ?

 

It seems to me from what I have read on this thread and elsewhere that nobody really wants closer union, but some reluctantly think it's a price worth paying for the trading benefits. Is that a fair assessment ? Anybody want to comment ?

Edited by E I Addio

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Humph it is hard to justify MEPs expenses as long as the farce of flitting between Strasbourg and Brussels continues - a piece of squalid back room wheeler dealing that EU citizens have to pay for because our 'Euromasters' are incapable of behaving like grown-ups.

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