Jump to content
British Speedway Forum
wealdstone

The continuing decline of Speedway

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Spl77 said:

The issue is that doubling up is way out of control. At one point this season 6 of the 7 Ipswich riders rode for another UK team. When it was introduced back in the early 2000s then know as the floater Ipswich had 2 riders who rode in the lower league sharing one team place. That is not to bad and a similar system was used in the 80s when Carl Blackbird rode for Ipswich and Mildenhall having a couple of riders sharing one spot probably wouldn't do much harm.

In terms of guests the sport had the boom time of the 70s and 80s to sort that out and at least one forward thinking promotion at the time tried get the BSPA to work on a solution. The the sport in this country had been forward thinking then or have the will now then you could over come the guest Issue Poland seems to manage. 

Just supposing for one second that the sport was invited to apply for lottery money or a major investor wanted to get involved in relaunched the leagues with a large sum of money. 

Chapman and Godfrey turn up and are asked to explain the basic way the leagues work and the answer is this 

We have two main leagues with 16 clubs between them. 

A rider can sign for a team in both leagues and if he does then he can more or less ride for every team in either league under our World leading 'guest system' to allow cover for injuries or if a rider missing from a contracted fixture because he is riding in Europe because they pay more. 

It's quite possible that a rider could score points as a guest for another team that could put his contracted team out of the league title fight. 

It's also possible that in a 2 legged final a rider could ride for both teams. 

More over if we find halfway through the season that due to riders riding for their contracted clubs on that clubs agreed race night we can force those clubs to cancel fixtures so that their contracted riders can quest for another team on the same night. 

These cancelled fixtures could also mean that those clubs miss the play offs as they won't have completed their fixtures by the agreed cut of date. 

At that point the investor finishes the meeting with thank you I'll be in touch. 

Mind you they could always pitch that in dragons den now that would make great TV! 

I wasn't aware of it back then, but the leniency of allowing more doubling up in the early 2000s might have been one reason I started having serious questions about team speedway. This and the double point tac rule was the exact period I began dreading Monday night, speedway night, arriving. The sport had gone daft. I recall Carl Stonehewer being determined to ride for Belle Vue and if I correctly recall, even paid the difference himself (it may have been to parent Workington for the difference in the loan fee) so he could turn out for both teams. Must have benefitted him financially. When the floodgates opened back then, was there a rider shortage or was it just promoters chose easy pickings and ready-made riders to keep fans happy?  

Another thing, the sport and its rule-makers just want to make it complicated. Take the scoring system in the league table. It is ridiculous. So many points for this, another so many for that. And yet, work out this week's table in the old-fashioned way, two points for a win etc, and there is no difference. In fact, Leicester wouldn't be as far adrift at the bottom as they now are.  

Edited by moxey63

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

 

Another thing, the sport and its rule-makers just want to make it complicated. Take the scoring system in the league table. It is ridiculous. So many points for this, another so many for that. And yet, work out this week's table in the old-fashioned way, two points for a win etc, and there is no difference. In fact, Leicester wouldn't be as far adrift at the bottom as they now are.  

Go back in time ? you surprised me 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, orion said:

Go back in time ? you surprised me 

One day soon, we're going to have to go back in time... to recall what speedway was in the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, The Cheese said:

The points system ridiculous? I would say it's one of the BSPA's better ideas in recent years

They've fooled you then? They mean nothing, the table practically stays the same with or without them making it complicated.

Edited by moxey63

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, moxey63 said:

One day soon, we're going to have to go back in time... to recall what speedway was in the UK.

 

th.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, orion said:

 

th.jpg

Another 2 or 3 hundred of these paying to get in at every track really would make a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Saturday, August 25, 2018 at 8:39 AM, Spl77 said:

The issue is that doubling up is way out of control. At one point this season 6 of the 7 Ipswich riders rode for another UK team. When it was introduced back in the early 2000s then know as the floater Ipswich had 2 riders who rode in the lower league sharing one team place. That is not to bad and a similar system was used in the 80s when Carl Blackbird rode for Ipswich and Mildenhall having a couple of riders sharing one spot probably wouldn't do much harm.

In terms of guests the sport had the boom time of the 70s and 80s to sort that out and at least one forward thinking promotion at the time tried get the BSPA to work on a solution. The the sport in this country had been forward thinking then or have the will now then you could over come the guest Issue Poland seems to manage. 

Just supposing for one second that the sport was invited to apply for lottery money or a major investor wanted to get involved in relaunched the leagues with a large sum of money. 

Chapman and Godfrey turn up and are asked to explain the basic way the leagues work and the answer is this 

We have two main leagues with 16 clubs between them. 

A rider can sign for a team in both leagues and if he does then he can more or less ride for every team in either league under our World leading 'guest system' to allow cover for injuries or if a rider missing from a contracted fixture because he is riding in Europe because they pay more. 

It's quite possible that a rider could score points as a guest for another team that could put his contracted team out of the league title fight. 

It's also possible that in a 2 legged final a rider could ride for both teams. 

More over if we find halfway through the season that due to riders riding for their contracted clubs on that clubs agreed race night we can force those clubs to cancel fixtures so that their contracted riders can quest for another team on the same night. 

These cancelled fixtures could also mean that those clubs miss the play offs as they won't have completed their fixtures by the agreed cut of date. 

At that point the investor finishes the meeting with thank you I'll be in touch. 

Mind you they could always pitch that in dragons den now that would make great TV! 

Spot on...

Imagine Poland running the same system?

The fans wouldnt go, the media wouldn't be interested and the Sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with such a 'Mickey Mouse' ran 'Team Sport'... (Unless your Zelona Gora maybe);)..

Guests are not a "necessary evil" as the Sport is ran in other countries without them...

Doubling up isn't an issue if fixtures are planned in correctly as other countries have doubling up but avoid clashes...

It is just 'lazy' administration...

Administration that any independent body or person wouldn't allow....

No NKI? Then the next two in the averages should be allowed to replace all his rides (if the manager wants to do that)...

Signing Jason Doyle shouldn't give you access to every other rider in the League, and provide you with a tactical advantage to pick Guests on a 'horses for courses' basis, yet in British Speedway it does..

Simply, you cannot take it seriously as a 'Team Sport', (in Britain), and that can never be a good starting point with which to attract Sponsors,  Media and Fans...

Which is a shame, as the product itself does attract decent crowds when it has credibilty, as is shown in Sweden, Poland and over here at Cardiff..

 

Edited by mikebv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, orion said:

 

th.jpg

This is what happens when people have paid to go into the stadium, and then find out the team's No.1 is not there and r/r is being used instead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, moxey63 said:

They've fooled you then? They mean nothing, the table practically stays the same with or without them making it complicated.

Just checked this in the championship, and you are correct, the table stays the same with two points for any win and one point for any draw, the teams are closer together points wise but that's all

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, moxey63 said:

They've fooled you then? They mean nothing, the table practically stays the same with or without them making it complicated.

It's not that complicated though is it? If it helps keep meetings interesting and competitive until the end where's the problem in that.. don't really want to go down this route again but plenty of other sports have a points system that involves more than just a basic 3/1/0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hamish McRaker said:

This is what happens when people have paid to go into the stadium, and then find out the team's No.1 is not there and r/r is being used instead

Speedway fans aint that young these days  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that most people will agree that to win away from home, in any sport, is quite difficult with the old adage "home advantage"  being true. In speed way tracks are different sizes, shapes and surfaces and so it is possibly even more difficult to get a good result. Therefore why not give away wins or draws extra points? I would suggest a system of 4 points home win, 2 for a home draw. Away win 6 points, 3 points for a draw and of course 0 points for defeats. Also give the away team 1 bonus point if they lose by 6 or less. When I have applied this system to the current league tables it hasn't made must difference position wise but does reflect the contribution a good away record makes to a team and could in the final run up to the season make a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Cheese said:

It's not that complicated though is it? If it helps keep meetings interesting and competitive until the end where's the problem in that.. don't really want to go down this route again but plenty of other sports have a points system that involves more than just a basic 3/1/0.

More complicated than it needs to be. It's there for no purpose really. The watercress on a salad dish. If you really need a system to keep fans interested until the end, invent one that really counts for something in the final analysis. Same with the old aggregate bonus points that ran from 1985 until about 10 years back. They didn't really shift the final placings and would have stayed the same had the old 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw remained. Indeed, it was so silly, when a run-off for the bonus point was needed after a tie on points, they held it on the track that staged the so-called second leg instead of having a match race on both tracks, which would have been just as silly!  

Speedway has damaged itself over time by having this sort of thing that makes it seem like a sport brainier than it actually is, and comes away looking silly. I may be wrong, but the more recent Speedway Nations tournament had its winners as the country that finished second in the scoring, although I may be wrong... For that reason, my interest was better served elsewhere.

Edited by moxey63

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thornaby48 said:

I think that most people will agree that to win away from home, in any sport, is quite difficult with the old adage "home advantage"  being true. In speed way tracks are different sizes, shapes and surfaces and so it is possibly even more difficult to get a good result. Therefore why not give away wins or draws extra points? I would suggest a system of 4 points home win, 2 for a home draw. Away win 6 points, 3 points for a draw and of course 0 points for defeats. Also give the away team 1 bonus point if they lose by 6 or less. When I have applied this system to the current league tables it hasn't made must difference position wise but does reflect the contribution a good away record makes to a team and could in the final run up to the season make a difference.

Just checked the championship and the table stays the same with two points for any win and one point for any draw, the teams are closer together points wise but that's all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Privacy Policy