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JohnHyam

British world champions ratings list

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1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

Like Kelly Moran he could have achieved so much more. He could easily have become a multi World Champion but having said that Michael won so much during a relatively short career and not many can say that!

Kelly a real star a great rider a great man, what i remember most about him is how polite and friendly he was with the fans.RIP.

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Just now, Sidney the robin said:

Kelly a real star a great rider a great man, what i remember most about him is how polite and friendly he was with the fans.RIP.

I witnessed lots of Kelly down at Arlington and he was a master of that track. Shame that he went home after 1982 when he was entering the best form of his life and was never quite the same again when he returned in 1986(?) in my view.

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18 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I witnessed lots of Kelly down at Arlington and he was a master of that track. Shame that he went home after 1982 when he was entering the best form of his life and was never quite the same again when he returned in 1986(?) in my view.

Kelly/ Ron Preston were both very good around Arlington also Kelly was a great team rider and he proved that at Sheffield/ Belle Vue.Can you remember when Kelly slipped through against Hans at Gothenburg in 1984.??

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3 hours ago, chunky said:

And? We are just discussing the world champions here, and "ifs" don't really enter into it. As I said though, as good as Carter was, he was never at Lee's level.

Of course, the big similarities were that they both had bags of potential, and they both possessed the same self-destructive tendencies.

yes and no.

Carter didn't have the natural talent of Lee (has anyone?). But he was better than Lee in 81, 82,85 , 86and pretty close in 83/84. Maybe that says more about Lee's decline?

Carter in 82 was arguably as good as Penhall, and Penhall is certainly regarded as same class as Lee. 

Agree 100% on the similarities.

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19 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

yes and no.

Carter didn't have the natural talent of Lee (has anyone?). But he was better than Lee in 81, 82,85 , 86and pretty close in 83/84. Maybe that says more about Lee's decline?

Carter in 82 was arguably as good as Penhall, and Penhall is certainly regarded as same class as Lee. 

Agree 100% on the similarities.

A great post with merit Lee i would say in his peak years was better in 1980/ 83 Carter in 81/82 two a piece as i dont count the other years both were declining because of 

 differing reasons.Carter like yourself i saw him win all his BLRC title's and he was awesome at times he  also had a decent British final record like (Lee).1983 does it for me though because Carter was very sharp that year and Lee slowly improved as the year rolled on.Lee had the measure of Nielsen that year and beat Carter/ Gundersen 4.0 in the golden helmet which took some doing.

Edited by Sidney the robin

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19 hours ago, Split said:

From the forum's (self appointed) South African correspondent :

Ah, those were the days. 

Appointed by the local club, WSRC, as their webmaster for 10 years, and via that and European connection, into the Sp.Star.

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Probably one of the few people who has seen all the British World Champions my placing would be

1. Tai Woffinden

2. Freddie Williams

3. Peter Craven

4. Michael Lee

5. Peter Collins

6.Mark Loram

7.Tommy Price

8. Gary Havelock

Just to add to this list Jack Parker, Dave Jessup and Kenny Carter as the best riders never to be world champion

 

Edited by mickthemuppet

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1 minute ago, mickthemuppet said:

Probably one of the few people who has seen all the British World Champions my placing would be

1. Tai Woffinden

2. Freddie Williams

3. Peter Craven

4. Michael Lee

5. Peter Collins

6.Mark Loram

7.Tommy Price

8.

9.

10 Gary Havelock

 

Also one of the few that would put Freddie Williams above Craven, i'd guess !!!

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3 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Also one of the few that would put Freddie Williams above Craven, i'd guess !!!

Freddie Williams was world champion twice and one second which was better than Peter Craven.

In different competitions I think they met 18 times  and Peter Craven only won six of these

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5 minutes ago, mickthemuppet said:

Freddie Williams was world champion twice and one second which was better than Peter Craven.

In different competitions I think they met 18 times  and Peter Craven only won six of these

But with an 8 year age difference Williams had the advantage of being at the top of his game when Craven was coming up and got out just as Craven was at the top. Only qualified for 4 Finals all at his home track,PC 10......

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11 minutes ago, iris123 said:

But with an 8 year age difference Williams had the advantage of being at the top of his game when Craven was coming up and got out just as Craven was at the top. Only qualified for 4 Finals all at his home track,PC 10......

Peter was only 29 so i would imagine he had at least one title left in him he was approaching his peak before is demise.

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2 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Peter was only 29 so i would imagine he had at least one title left in him he was approaching his peak before is demise.

Always difficult to say for sure, Sid. But there would have been a good possibility of a rostrum place or two. And probably qualified for a good few over the 10 finals

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6 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Always difficult to say for sure, Sid. But there would have been a good possibility of a rostrum place or two. And probably qualified for a good few over the 10 finals

That era was so tough Iris with the big five about such a shame Peter was not around and Bjorn Knutsson for longer.Also Mirac had that big gap in his career at the highest level what a rider he was.

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Just another comparison.

Fred Williams was never ranked higher than no. 4 in the World in Stenner's end of year rankings, a position he achieved twice.

Peter Craven was ranked no. 2 once, no. 3 four times and fourth once in the successor Speedway Star end of year rankings . This in a period, as Sidney points out, included Fundin. Moore, Briggs and Knutson.

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6 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

That era was so tough Iris with the big five about such a shame Peter was not around and Bjorn Knutsson for longer.Also Mirac had that big gap in his career at the highest level what a rider he was.

Yes, but it was all in Knutson and Miracs hands. They decided their own destiny. Lacked motivation etc, whereas with PC it was taken out of his hands and he could well have gone on the achieve more

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