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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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7 minutes ago, iris123 said:

You really are a Project Fear all on your own. Anyway if you don’t care about chlorinated chicken then ......

So when did i say that comrade ? I only eat organically produced British meat, so you missed the dart board again...:rolleyes:

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59 minutes ago, iris123 said:

 Anyway if you don’t care about chlorinated chicken then ......

Chlorinated chicken sounds terrible so makes a good headline, it'd be nice if somebody using it as a fear story explained what it actually means, just how dangerous it is and is it really likely to be allowed into the UK.

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A further update on my random research test debacle 

RED letter received as a follow up to original request (as in similar to unpaid bill scenario) asking me to respond to take part

A further email now stating the courier will make a pick up of my completed test today 

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1 hour ago, Vince said:

Chlorinated chicken sounds terrible so makes a good headline, it'd be nice if somebody using it as a fear story explained what it actually means, just how dangerous it is and is it really likely to be allowed into the UK.

It’s just a sound bite for EU Remainers to bad mouth a US trade deal.

Apparently the EU stopped the practice of chlorinating chicken not because of any health or nutritional worries but because they were worried that abattoirs and food processing centres would rely on it unduly rather than observing good general hygiene standards.

Just like SAGE saying they wouldn’t introduce mask-wearing because people would become complacent and not adhere to two metre distancing.

In short, there’s nothing wrong with chlorinated chicken.

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6 minutes ago, DC2 said:

It’s just a sound bite for EU Remainers to bad mouth a US trade deal.

Apparently the EU stopped the practice of chlorinating chicken not because of any health or nutritional worries but because they were worried that abattoirs and food processing centres would rely on it unduly rather than observing good general hygiene standards.

Just like SAGE saying they wouldn’t introduce mask-wearing because people would become complacent and not adhere to two metre distancing.

In short, there’s nothing wrong with chlorinated chicken.

CANNOT imagine how much chicken I have eaten in the USA over the past 50 years and never had a problem. However, in the unlikely event that importing chlorinated American chicken is essential for a trade deal with the US wouldn't agree on the basis that we can produce enough chicken for our consumption here.  

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1 hour ago, Vince said:

Chlorinated chicken sounds terrible so makes a good headline, it'd be nice if somebody using it as a fear story explained what it actually means, just how dangerous it is and is it really likely to be allowed into the UK.

Washing in chlorine isn't, in itself, a bad thing. Pre-packed salads are washed in chlorine as they leaves can pick up bacteria contained in the soil.

The issue with chicken is that in the EU we have strict welfare and production standards, which includes banning the use of chlorine washing. However, in the US the welfare laws are far less strict meaning the animals are kept in such appalling, unsanitary, disease ridden conditions that the meat has to be washed in chlorine to kill bacteria before it can be eaten.

Therefore, given that most people shop on price, if allowed, cheap, poorly bred and chlorine washed US chicken will likely undercut British chickens reared to a higher standards, forcing British farmers to lower standards to be price competitive.

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12 minutes ago, MattK said:

Washing in chlorine isn't, in itself, a bad thing. Pre-packed salads are washed in chlorine as they leaves can pick up bacteria contained in the soil.

The issue with chicken is that in the EU we have strict welfare and production standards, which includes banning the use of chlorine washing. However, in the US the welfare laws are far less strict meaning the animals are kept in such appalling, unsanitary, disease ridden conditions that the meat has to be washed in chlorine to kill bacteria before it can be eaten.

Therefore, given that most people shop on price, if allowed, cheap, poorly bred and chlorine washed US chicken will likely undercut British chickens reared to a higher standards, forcing British farmers to lower standards to be price competitive.

Well, that’s one analysis.

Factor in transportation costs against the US chickens and freshness and locally produced free range chickens from the UK and the choice will be what it’s always been!

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24 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Well, that’s one analysis.

Factor in transportation costs against the US chickens and freshness and locally produced free range chickens from the UK and the choice will be what it’s always been!

Again, you're swimming against the tide my friend.

"Free-range accounts for 5% and organic 1% of UK chicken production, according to the British Poultry Council. The remaining 94% comes from intensively reared birds."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29219843

People shop primarily on cost.

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24 minutes ago, MattK said:

Again, you're swimming against the tide my friend.

"Free-range accounts for 5% and organic 1% of UK chicken production, according to the British Poultry Council. The remaining 94% comes from intensively reared birds."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29219843

People shop primarily on cost.

 

There’s only three certainties in life: death, taxes ..... and change!

Free range chickens have come down in price over the years and markets always adjust to supply and demand.

You can buy a factory chicken in Aldi for £2.50 and a free range for £5.

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1 hour ago, MattK said:

Again, you're swimming against the tide my friend.

"Free-range accounts for 5% and organic 1% of UK chicken production, according to the British Poultry Council. The remaining 94% comes from intensively reared birds."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29219843

People shop primarily on cost.

The fact is that

A. British battery chickens will remain cheaper than those imported (and if you've ever been in a battery chicken shed you wouldn't be so impressed by our welfare laws)

B. They will never get away with lowering animal welfare or food hygiene standards below the current British level to secure a trade deal.

The point I was making is that the washing of chickens in chlorinated water is no issue health wise but people seem to think differently because of the way it has been portrayed by those wishing to denigrate and non EU deal in the way Steve Shovlar just did.

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5 minutes ago, Vince said:

The fact is that

A. British battery chickens will remain cheaper than those imported (and if you've ever been in a battery chicken shed you wouldn't be so impressed by our welfare laws)

B. They will never get away with lowering animal welfare or food hygiene standards below the current British level to secure a trade deal.

The point I was making is that the washing of chickens in chlorinated water is no issue health wise but people seem to think differently because of the way it has been portrayed by those wishing to denigrate and non EU deal in the way Steve Shovlar just did.

And if the EU used chlorine and the US didn’t it would be “you don’t want a filthy US chicken, they don’t even wash them in chlorine”. :D

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9 minutes ago, Vince said:

The fact is that

A. British battery chickens will remain cheaper than those imported (and if you've ever been in a battery chicken shed you wouldn't be so impressed by our welfare laws)

B. They will never get away with lowering animal welfare or food hygiene standards below the current British level to secure a trade deal.

The point I was making is that the washing of chickens in chlorinated water is no issue health wise but people seem to think differently because of the way it has been portrayed by those wishing to denigrate and non EU deal in the way Steve Shovlar just did.

There is a reason why maggot farms pick up tons of chicken and turkey from UK farms every week. The amount of fallen stock from overcrowding is colossal, as you rightly say, welfare is very poor...

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BBC reports the week’s deaths to 13 November was 19% above the five year average for that week, but no mention of what the worst week was during those previous five years, nor the worst figure in the last twenty years.

I suspect the headline hides a rather mundane truth.

No perspective, yet again.  :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55057380

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Anyway, back to covid

94 dead announced in Sweden. Not a trend, but a lot more than Tuesday of last week...

The alarm about Sweden: More dead than last spring

Sweden can have over 100 dead in the day before Christmas, according to researcher Marc Bevand and epidemiologist David Steadson.

The death toll could be higher than during the peak in April.

- We have a potentially catastrophic Christmas ahead of us, says David Steadson.

On April 10 and 17, 115 people died in Sweden with corona.

Before Christmas, as many, or more, could die, according to epidemiologist David Steadson's calculations.

- We exceed 100 deaths per day before Christmas, although it will not be visible in the statistics until after New Year, he says.

Steadson, who has been frequently quoted in the Australian media and lives in Sweden, believes that the Swedish strategy has been insufficient to stop rampant death tolls.

 

Epidemiologist David Steadson's curve of deaths per day is based on the proportion of infected people who die in different age groups, and when most infected people die. In this way, he believes that one can calculate how many will die within three weeks.

 

The R-number is also taken into account.

 

In addition to this, he assumes the backlog around the deaths reported by the Public Health Agency.

Sweden has focused too much on protecting fragile groups and that healthcare should not be overburdened, he says, instead of suppressing infection throughout society.

- Most other countries assumed that the virus was still so unknown and deadly, that it was too risky to let it spread, he says.

David Steadson believes that Sweden now "must change strategy."

- So far, the measures in Sweden may have slowed down the process, but it is clear that we are moving in the wrong direction. What is being done is simply not enough, and now we know that there are effective vaccines on the way. We just have to save the lives and health of thousands of people before then.

The second wave will "exceed the peak"

Researcher Marc Bevand has arrived at the same figure, and believes that Sweden will reach over 100 dead on 11 December.

"After today's update from the Swedish Public Health Agency, I predict that Sweden will exceed the top with the 100 deaths they had in April," he wrote on Twitter on November 18.

Mathematics professor Tom Britton has not made any calculations of his own about this, but he believes that the peak around death rates for the second wave can occur in about two weeks.

He does not believe in as many deaths as the peak in April.

- I think it will be at most in two weeks. But maybe half of what it was last time, but there is great uncertainty.

He sees two differences now compared to this spring: some immunity and that fewer people die thanks to more effective care.

- This means that it should be a minor hump this time, he says.

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Edited by iris123

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5 hours ago, Blupanther said:

I only eat organically produced British meat, so you missed the dart board again...:rolleyes:

Ok, so you were just warning us about this on the Covid thread for our own good then ? Ta muchly :D

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