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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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Update from the man himself

Corona infection continues to increase in Sweden and around the world.

Anders Tegnell says during the press conference that the peak may not have been reached yet and that the burden on healthcare is likely to increase over the next two weeks.

At the same time, Tegnell sees no signs of a herd immunity that could reduce the infection.

94 new deaths with confirmed covid-19 have been reported in Sweden since last Friday, the Public Health Agency announces. Thus, a total of 6,500 infected people have died in the country.

- Almost all regions are hard hit, says Anders Tegnell.

A small reduction is seen, which may be an effect of the local general councils that have been introduced. But according to Tegnell, it is too early to dare to breathe out.

- Even though it may look like it has stalled a bit, we should be careful, we still have an extensive spread, he says.

Stockholm hit hard

Tegnell says that Stockholm has been hit hard by the second wave.

- We have seen that Stockholm was at levels that were higher than the rest of the country, up to twice as high. And even during the second wave, Stockholm has been hit more and is in all probability higher than everyone else.

However, there are no new figures with how many can be immune in Stockholm, Tegnell announces.

- The question of herd immunity is difficult, we have learned that during this trip. But we see no signs of an immunity that is slowing down the infection now. 

The number of patients will increase

At the same time, Tegnell predicts that the burden on all hospitals around the country will increase. And that a peak can be reached in two weeks.

- It is a bit difficult to know where the peak will end up somewhere now, but we know that the hospital admissions have a backlog of one to two weeks. 

- We see today on the data that it is possible that there is a certain distance in the increase in infection. But when it translates to calming down in healthcare, we do not know yet. But at least it takes two weeks. 

Tegnell is also asked about a possible third wave and when it could hit Sweden:

- It is difficult to judge, now that we are, in what possibility is the peak of the second wave, but maybe not. We still see an increase in several countries in Europe, so you should have an eye ahead and see that it's probably not to this scale either. 

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Edited by iris123

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“From the man himself”, but not a single quotation mark in sight!  :D

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10 minutes ago, DC2 said:

“From the man himself”, but not a single quotation mark in sight!  :D

(-)I think that indicates his words. But obviously you would rather make another puerile comment :rolleyes: 

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In early 2020, the coronavirus was restricted to Chinese Wuhan. The public health authority did not believe that the infection would come to Sweden under the prevailing circumstances, with the Swedes being evacuated from China.

But on the last day of January, the first Swedish case was confirmed, even though the risk of infection spreading was judged to be low. The authority did not advise against planned sports holiday trips. It was not until the end of February that the risk of Swedes being infected abroad was considered high. Then it went fast.

Expressen has previously examined the focal points in Sweden's handling of the corona crisis this spring. Anders Tegnell admitted in the program "Summer in P1" that he initially underestimated the virus.

- It is obvious that if you listen to my statements from February, my assessments of the future were completely different from the one that became, said the state epidemiologist.

Did not believe in second wave in Sweden

However, he described the shutdown in other countries as "the world went crazy" and that the "political pressure" became too strong. After headlines about a self-critical Anders Tegnell in June, due to Sweden's comparatively high death toll, the state epidemiologist clarified to TT that it was a misconception.

- You should be self-critical. That's fine, but I'm no more self-critical now than I used to be. Of course, we would not have done exactly the same thing if we then knew everything we know today. It would have been strange. But that is always the case when you look back in the rearview mirror.

During the summer, a period of lower infection spread and low death rates followed. Persistent criticism and skepticism from the outside world was exchanged for praise and amazement. At the end of July, Anders Tegnell told TT that he did not believe in a second wave after the holiday months, as few Swedes have been abroad:

- So the risk that we would get a scenario that we had after the sports holiday when many were out and became infected, it no longer exists.

At a press conference on September 22, Tegnell was asked if he sees Sweden's strategy as a success.

- All countries will find their own examples of success and shortcomings. Sweden's success is that we have been able to continue to run healthcare in a good way. We have also been able to keep society open without any major spread of infection. Our failure was not to protect our elderly, but when the problem became apparent, it has improved significantly, the state epidemiologist replied.

"Small figure compared to other diseases"

Tegnell also replied that a degree of immunity within the population may have contributed to the low spread of infection. When one million global deaths in covid-19 were reached at the end of September, the state epidemiologist commented on Swedish Radio :

- It is a fairly small number compared to many other diseases that cause death. We must not be fooled into thinking that this is the only problem we have in the world when it comes to global health.

In another interview with the magazine Chef , Tegnell said that it was "more dangerous to cross a pedestrian crossing" than to be infected with covid-19. Then it went quickly again. Across Europe, there were alarm reports of a second wave - but Sweden's state epidemiologist did not want to use the term for developments in Sweden.

- There are obviously countries where you can say that it is a second wave. France, definitely. Spain is there too. The Netherlands, Anders Tegnell said at a press conference on October 15.

- It requires an extensive spread in large parts of society, which we do not see at all in Sweden.

The government made the decision without Tegnell

Four days later, on 20 October, Uppsala was the first county to decide to introduce special restrictions, in consultation with the Swedish Public Health Agency. On the same day, Anders Tegnell had to defend the Swedish strategy in the British newspaper New Statesman .

- I want to be very clear. No, we did not close again like many other countries, but in practice we had a shutdown, Tegnell claimed.

The following week, restrictions were tightened in four more regions, and soon all 21 counties had sharp general advice to reduce the escalating spread of infection. 

The outside world returned to questioning Sweden's strategy - and the government's confidence in the Public Health Agency suddenly appeared to be damaged.

Neither the restriction on eight people nor the alcohol ban at 10 pm was sanctioned by the authority. Anders Tegnell, who previously questioned the strong political pressure in other countries, was now in the same seat as his European colleagues.

- There has been no major dialogue before. This is the government's decision, Tegnell said in "Studio One" .

"Surprising to be submissive"

In the same interview, Anders Tegnell claimed that cinema visits went well despite the new rules, which were later rejected. The confusion surrounding the restrictions attracted a great deal of attention. 

At the same time, the opposition parties have demanded an answer about oral protection, according to a report from the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences' expert group that goes against the Public Health Agency's advice.

Several experts stated the other day in Svenska Dagbladet that the government seems to have begun to lose confidence in Tegnell. At the same time, political scientist Marja Lemne explained in Expressen that the government should have taken control a long time ago.

- It has been very surprising, I think as a political scientist, that you have, as it were, completely subordinated yourself in the spring and summer. You can call it trust, or that you want someone else to hide behind and blame, she says.

When the international organization OECD recently evaluated the member states' corona handling, Sweden was worst at point after point. These included the residents' movement patterns, reducing the R number and reducing the number of IVA patients admitted. But Anders Tegnell dismissed the report as out of context, and told SVT News: 

- They do not say that Sweden has failed.

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14 minutes ago, iris123 said:

(-)I think that indicates his words. But obviously you would rather make another puerile comment :rolleyes: 

Not puerile at all.

You have to be careful with Expressen.

The earlier article that you quoted highlighted in bold, The second wave will "exceed the peak", but then went on to say that the Mathematics professor “does not believe in as many deaths as the peak in April.”

It’s a biased newspaper.

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3 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Not puerile at all.

 

It was puerile. It was fairly obvious where Tegnell himself was speaking :rolleyes:

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Here’s Expressen misleading again:

“When the international organization OECD recently evaluated the member states' corona handling, Sweden was worst at point after point.”

Point after point? What they actually mean is that Sweden was “worst” on some, but by no means all, points and that the ones it was worst on were not ones that it tried to be best on.

Indeed restricting “residentsmovement patterns” and reducing the R number “ were two things it tried not to do!

 

 

24 minutes ago, iris123 said:

 

 

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15 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Here’s Expressen misleading again:

“When the international organization OECD recently evaluated the member states' corona handling, Sweden was worst at point after point.”

Point after point? What they actually mean is that Sweden was “worst” on some, but by no means all, points and that the ones it was worst on were not ones that it tried to be best on.

Indeed restricting “residentsmovement patterns” and reducing the R number “ were two things it tried not to do!

 

 

 

Why is that misleading ? They say point after point and that is true. They also did ask , but didn't order people to restrict movement. And we have already been through the fact that they have it harder to restrict things compared to the UK, Germany etc. They have to take it to parliament. Also who say's they didn't try to get the r-rate down ? Tegnell doesn't mention it, but say's the OECD took the number at the wrong period - The measurement was made when Sweden increased the testing very much and the more you test, the more cases you find - then it becomes more difficult to get down the R-number, says Anders Tegnell.

Another comment when the r-rate was rising

TT: Is it worrying that the R-number took that turn?
“Of course we want to get down to as low levels as possible. But it is not directly worrying, especially since it has not affected healthcare or care for the elderly to any great extent. The most important thing is that the number has not continued to rise ", says Anders Tegnell.

Edited by iris123

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26 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Not puerile at all.

You have to be careful with Expressen.

The earlier article that you quoted highlighted in bold, The second wave will "exceed the peak", but then went on to say that the Mathematics professor “does not believe in as many deaths as the peak in April.”

It’s a biased newspaper.

You told us earlier in the year that there wouldn't be a second wave.  How's that going?

Edited by lucifer sam
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11 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Why is that misleading ? They say point after point and that is true. They also did ask , but didn't order people to restrict movement. And we have already been through the fact that they have it harder to restrict things compared to the UK, Germany etc. They have to take it to parliament. Also who say's they didn't try to get the r-rate down ? Tegnell doesn't mention it, but say's the OECD took the number at the wrong period - The measurement was made when Sweden increased the testing very much and the more you test, the more cases you find - then it becomes more difficult to get down the R-number, says Anders Tegnell.

You cannot move to herd immunity unless the R number is above 1 and while at times it might be desirable to lower it that is not a primary aim.

Quite the opposite for lockdown countries; they see crushing the R number as the Holy Grail.

 

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3 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

You told us earlier in the year that there wouldn't be a second wave.  How's that going?

You are wrong.

I said there would be a second wave.

Because Covid is a flu and seasonal.

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1 minute ago, DC2 said:

You cannot move to herd immunity unless the R number is above 1 and while at times it might be desirable to lower it that is not a primary aim.

Quite the opposite for lockdown countries; they see crushing the R number as the Holy Grail.

 

I think you are just making things up or have dreamt it

TT: Is it worrying that the R-number took that turn?
“Of course we want to get down to as low levels as possible. But it is not directly worrying, especially since it has not affected healthcare or care for the elderly to any great extent. The most important thing is that the number has not continued to rise ", says Anders Tegnell.

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Just now, iris123 said:

I think you are just making things up or have dreamt it

TT: Is it worrying that the R-number took that turn?
“Of course we want to get down to as low levels as possible. But it is not directly worrying, especially since it has not affected healthcare or care for the elderly to any great extent. The most important thing is that the number has not continued to rise ", says Anders Tegnell.

Which is consistent with what I said.

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1 minute ago, DC2 said:

Which is consistent with what I said.

No it isn't. You said they didn't try to lower the r rate. Tegnell say's they wanted it as low as possible and didn't want it to rise. It is not even worth debating with someone who doesn't even know what they said a few minutes ago

Indeed restricting “residentsmovement patterns” and reducing the R number “ were two things it tried not to do!

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