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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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Just now, iris123 said:

That has already been explained. They tried to keep the r rate as low as possible, you stated they didn't. You even in a way suggested they would have liked it high, so as to get as many people infected as possible. That wasn't the strategy. But to an extent their hands were tied and also tried a different route to keep it down. I have already quoted Tegnell on that.... atm they have gone about as far as they possibly can without putting it before parliament to go even further. Tegnell admits mistakes were made would have done things differently if he knew then what he knows now. It is all lost on you and not even worth the time to bother

You’re wrong. That was the strategy and still is.

Sweden was happy for the virus to spread with a view to herd immunity being achieved at some point. If they’d actively sought to suppress the virus there would have been no chance of herd immunity and they would have used more measures.

On the other hand, it clearly also makes sense to try to reduce the R rate if there’s a risk of exceeding your hospital capacity or putting at risk people in care homes at the infectious peak. And that’s what Teignell is talking about now. 

 

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Both supporters and detractors have described Sweden’s strategy as one of “herd immunity”: allowing the majority of the population to contract Covid-19 in the hope of building resistance to it. But Tegnell insists that this is not the case. “That’s incorrect – in common with other countries we’re trying to slow down the spread as much as possible... To imply that we let the disease run free without any measures to try to stop it is not true.”

He warned that a genuine herd immunity strategy could be disastrous: “If you have Covid-19 spreading, so that 50-60 per cent of your society eventually have the disease, it can rapidly overwhelm your health service and possibly cause a number of deaths indefinitely and leave people with long-term consequences. If you can avoid that I would say that you definitely should.”

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25 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Both supporters and detractors have described Sweden’s strategy as one of “herd immunity”: allowing the majority of the population to contract Covid-19 in the hope of building resistance to it. But Tegnell insists that this is not the case. “That’s incorrect – in common with other countries we’re trying to slow down the spread as much as possible... To imply that we let the disease run free without any measures to try to stop it is not true.”

He warned that a genuine herd immunity strategy could be disastrous: “If you have Covid-19 spreading, so that 50-60 per cent of your society eventually have the disease, it can rapidly overwhelm your health service and possibly cause a number of deaths indefinitely and leave people with long-term consequences. If you can avoid that I would say that you definitely should.”

As I said, they would not want to overwhelm the health service by having a huge number of people infected at the same time.

I can’t tell which words in the post are yours and which are from an article. Is it all copy and paste? Could you explain? And could you let me have a link to the article?

Ah, I can see, you appear to have got it here: 

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2020/10/sweden-s-anders-tegnell-we-did-not-pursue-herd-immunity-against-covid-19

But of course while Teignell may be reluctant to label it, others are not: 

“At the heart of the government’s strategy was the implicit and controversial idea that, rather than contain the spread of disease, a country could achieve herd immunity by allowing a proportion of the population to be infected—at the expense of deaths among the vulnerable. “They did not want to put it bluntly, but seeking herd immunity was always inherent in the Swedish strategy,” says Anders Bjorkman, a professor of infectious diseases at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2376

“Sweden’s policy of allowing the controlled spread of Covid-19 viral infection among the population has so far failed to deliver the country’s previously stated goal of herd immunity.”

https://www.rsm.ac.uk/media-releases/2020/covid-19-herd-immunity-in-sweden-fails-to-materialise/

 

Edited by DC2

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29 minutes ago, iris123 said:

That has already been explained. They tried to keep the r rate as low as possible, you stated they didn't. You even in a way suggested they would have liked it high, so as to get as many people infected as possible. That wasn't the strategy. But to an extent their hands were tied and also tried a different route to keep it down. I have already quoted Tegnell on that.... atm they have gone about as far as they possibly can without putting it before parliament to go even further. Tegnell admits mistakes were made would have done things differently if he knew then what he knows now. It is all lost on you and not even worth the time to bother

And if I am rude, well that is because you come out with lies and don't deserve any respect. Just like that Bluejam, who came out with the exact same lie twice .....

The Swedes are very happy that they have maintained their liberty, something overlooked by many, but not by Swedes. This is why Tegnell has the respect of most people in Sweden. No talk of a 'freedom pass' in Sweden.....yet. 

Edited by Blupanther
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1 minute ago, Blupanther said:

The Swedes are very happy that they have maintained their liberty, something overlooked my many, but not by Swedes. This is why Tegnell has the respect of most people in Sweden. No talk of a 'freedom pass' in Sweden.....yet. 

I don't blame them and I quoted Tegnell yesterday when he said something along the lines that the rest of the world or Europe went a bit crazy . But it is also a fact that it isn't as easy as most other countries to go down that route. In most countries the ruling party made the decision on their own. In Sweden it would have to go to a parliamentary debate/vote. Which is no bad thing, and something some opposition parties here in Germany have called for

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In Stockholm County, 164 people with covid-19 have died in the past two weeks, and almost 20,000 have been confirmed infected.

Oslo has five dead and about 2,400 infected - but the chairman of the municipal board, Raymond Johansen, is not ready to ease the city's tough restrictions.

The Norwegian government announced on Wednesday that the restrictions will remain in place for at least three weeks. 

 

In Oslo County, which consists of Oslo Municipality alone and has 690,000 inhabitants, 2,422 people have been confirmed infected with covid-19 in the last 14 days. This is almost a third of all cases in the whole country, while just over a tenth of the inhabitants live in the capital. 

The infection in Oslo has been a source of concern in Norway, but now the chairman of the municipal board, Raymond Johansen, seems to see a brightening.

- The level of infection is still high, but we see that the increase has leveled off somewhat. It can be said that this is a basis for cautious optimism, he tells Dagbladet .

But, he continues:

- At the same time, we see that the proportion of positive tests is higher than ever. We test about 2,500 people every day and the proportion of positives is 7.2 percent. 

Ten times higher death toll in Stockholm

Even in Sweden, the capital region has had a greater spread of infection than the national average.

In Stockholm County, with approximately 2.4 million inhabitants, the number of confirmed infections during the same period is 19,359, corresponding to approximately 800 infected per 100,000, compared with Oslo's 350 per 100,000. In Stockholm, 21.8 percent of the tests were positive last year. week, ie three times as high a share as in Norway.

When it comes to deaths, the difference between cities is even greater than when you look at the number of new cases.

In Stockholm, 164 people have been reported dead in the last 14 days, corresponding to 6.8 deaths per 100,000.

"May live with the measures"

According to the newspaper VG's statistics, five people in Oslo with covid-19 have died in two weeks. There are only a tenth as many as in Stockholm.

But Raymond Johansen tells Dagbladet that it is not time to ease the restrictions that were introduced a couple of weeks ago: stops for indoor events, a ban on alcohol serving, requirements for mouth guards in taxis and two meters distance between customers in stores, among other things.

- Most indications are that we will have to live with most of the measures for a while longer, and if the infection rates increase again, further measures may be necessary.

Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg announced on Wednesday that the restrictions will remain in place for at least three weeks. 

59 patients with covid-19, 8.5 per 100,000, are on Tuesday admitted to hospitals affiliated with Oslo County, reports VG. This is an increase of 17 patients in two weeks.

In Stockholm, 748 covid patients are hospitalized, 31 per 100,000 inhabitants. This is an increase of 355 patients in two weeks.

Since the beginning of the pandemic, 63 people with covid-19 have died in Oslo, 9 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants. In Stockholm, the death toll is 2,631 - 110 per 100,000.

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Moving swiftly on, how sweet is this.

 

 

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The situation in neighbouring Denmark

In the last 24 hours, 5 new deaths have been registered with corona infected in Denmark, and thus Denmark has rounded 800 deaths.

A total of 802 people have died from the virus, according to the Statens Serum Institut (SSI) in its daily update. At the same time, the figures show that in the last 24 hours, 1,183 new cases of infection have been registered in Denmark, which have been found on the basis of almost 76,000 samples.

The figure is roughly on a par with what has been seen over the past week. The proportion of positive samples is 1.6 percent, which is also roughly equivalent to the figure in the past week.

Viggo Andreasen is an associate professor of mathematical biology and an epidemic researcher at Roskilde University.

He sees the infection rate as an indication that the infection pressure has stabilized at a relatively high level.

"The number of new cases of infection has been rising slightly, but not alarmingly."

"The number confirms the impression that the epidemic is fairly calm," he says.

The number of inpatients has doubled in one month

The infection rates have increased continuously throughout the autumn and are higher than in the spring, but it must be seen in the light that today tests are much more extensive, and therefore it is not possible to compare the figures directly.

According to a calculation from SSI, there would have been around 3,000 daily cases of infection in early April, if one could have tested 70,000 a day at that time.

Based on that assessment, the infection has been at a higher level in the spring than at present. This can also be seen in the number of inpatients, which fell by 4 to 251 on Wednesday.

The number has doubled in the past month, but at the same time is about half compared to the beginning of April, when the epidemic peaked.

Viggo Andreasen researches, among other things, the projection of epidemics. He predicts that with the current increase in the number of new cases of infection, we are looking forward to a Christmas and a New Year, when the number of infections will reach new heights.

"It will translate into more new cases of infection, unless you intervene politically and tighten the restrictions further," says Viggo Andreasen

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Iris, have you gone Scandinavia mad? It’s like an affliction.

We’re in the UK. Can we have something more relevant to here?

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2 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Iris, have you gone Scandinavia mad? It’s like an affliction.

We’re in the UK. Can we have something more relevant to here?

Just ignore it if you don't like it. Easy enough :rolleyes:

If you want more UK stuff, post it by all means. I am just trying to give an impression on things elsewhere. It might help those who think we are in a world conspiracy at this moment in time....

Stop trolling and start adding something

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2 hours ago, racers and royals said:

Today’s UK Hospital Covid 19 reported deaths

England   353   38985( same as yesterday)

Scotland  44   (3588)

Wales  41   (2446)

NI  7  (954)

All UK Covid 19 deaths reported today- Hospital 445   other  251      total   696

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8 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

All UK Covid 19 deaths reported today- Hospital 445   other  251      total   696

Well if it was a jump yesterday what is it today ? How many more than last Wednesday ?

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2 hours ago, Blupanther said:

Well, you are certainly into one today matey...:)

Well what do you expect ?  Here I am locked down , stuck indoors, cant get out with my mates, the gym has been sold for housing  due to coronavirus, its too  flippn' cold and damp to go and do anything in the garage, cant escape coronavirus when I turn the wireless on, nothing ever worth watching on the telly,, so I come on the BSF for a bit of light relief and all I get is you putting up a video clip of some old dosser dressed up like Farmer Giles,  probably a member of the Druids and Daily Express reader who know doubt spends half his life phoning up Talk Radio to discuss things he knows nothing about and blaming everything on  foreigners, and there is, effing and blinding about coronavirus thinking he's a medical expert because he has a copy of the Readers Digest Home Doctor on the bookshelf next to the Satanic Verses,, talking in riddles. Not that I am judging him , you understand. SO ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!

On top of the the dustmen came round again today and as usual only half emptied the food caddy and instead of putting it back where I left it. on the wall, they just slung it on the pavement in front of next door with  a weeks mouldy food still inside.

Apart from that its been a wonderful dayB)

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