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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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7 minutes ago, Shrub said:

You mean the documentary that was presented by the twin brothers who are doctors? If so it said near the end of the programme we had to reach 97% herd immunity to be safe and herd immunity was achieved through vaccines with no mention of achieving immunity by contracting and recovering from Covid or of T cell immunity. It did contain lots of interesting facts but only one interpretation of them.     

Rather selective lifting there. That was a worse case scenario, when a change of two of the  imputs were tweaked. The early version were the achievable outputs with 67% take up of vaccines and a healthy R,, but your quotation was shown as an indication of the fluctuation from the normal. Instead of being a one trick pony Lockdown expert, when you seek info from an excellent factual programme, at least lift the right examples not worst case.  :angry:

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14 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

How can you be sure that the rise in deaths was due to the new strain?

What channel was Horizon on?

BBC2. Look and be informed Rough.

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4 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

BBC2. Look and be informed Rough.

A remember watching a documentary called, '10 reasons why not to watch the telly',,, a think that was on BBC2 also, it was good tho. ;)

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17 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Bollocks.

As a lockdown fan, maybe you could explain this...

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15 minutes ago, Blupanther said:

As a lockdown fan, maybe you could explain this...

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I might if the audience was open minded and not on their high horse as usual.

Can you explain why the most popular tool to fight the spread of the virus for nearly all foreign governments is Lockdown. If the virus is transmitted by person to person contact, it doesn't need an Einstein to suggest that by eliminating the contact the virus won't be so rapidly passed on and, together with the vaccine, a target of zero R is more than probable. End of virus.     

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Texas Governor Greg Abbott just opened up his State 100% to all businesses, and removed the mask mandate...

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Posted (edited)

 

2 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Rather selective lifting there. That was a worse case scenario, when a change of two of the  imputs were tweaked. The early version were the achievable outputs with 67% take up of vaccines and a healthy R,, but your quotation was shown as an indication of the fluctuation from the normal. Instead of being a one trick pony Lockdown expert, when you seek info from an excellent factual programme, at least lift the right examples not worst case.  :angry:

I will go back to the point that no mention was made of immunity being achieved through recovering from the virus or from T cell immunity, it inferred it was only achieved by vaccination. That is not true. You know as well as I do that the facts can and have been interpreted in many ways, the programme, which I found interesting, offered only one interpretation and made no mention of other credible views. A good programme, but not balanced.

I've never made a claim to being a lockdown expert but have always said that the lockdown measures will kill far more than the virus will and almost daily evidence comes forward that backs that view. Tomorrow the chancellor will supposedly 'level with us' about the economic cost of the lockdown, around £280 billion so far, at some point it has to be paid for and it will be the young who will have to foot the bill, not the likes of you. Despite being at virtually zero risk the young have had their education ruined, have had their social lives taken from them and 60% of all job losses due to the lockdown have been amongst the under 25's. 

You keep stating nearly all governments have used lockdown as their go to tool but fail to add it's been a disaster virtually everywhere, especially here. Why isn't the situation in Florida more openly discussed? Back in September their governor called in a team of experts to asses the effectiveness of lockdown measures. They concluded that they were not working. The measures were then all nullified; no masks, schools, businesses and hospitality all open. Instead resources were targeted at the vulnerable. Imperial's modelling for the US said that in a state with a population the size of Florida there would be 143,000 deaths within months if no lockdown was in place. A year on and deaths stand at 30,000. It is more urban than here. The population is older, has more health issues and far greater levels of obesity. They have also had the Kent variant since December. The only thing in it's favour is the warmer climate. It should have been carnage according to all the lockdown enthusiasts yet it wasn't. Their economy shrank by 2.4% in 2020 compared to the 10% here. It's just one state but it shows that lockdowns don't have to be the first port of call. A bit late in the day now but this type of approach should have been researched thoroughly and discussed like adults. 

I'm still waiting by the way for you to point out the posts you say I've made cheering bad news.

Edited by Shrub
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Shrub said:

 

 

You keep stating nearly all governments have used lockdown as their go to tool but fail to add it's been a disaster virtually everywhere, especially here. Why isn't the situation in Florida more openly discussed? Back in September their governor called in a team of experts to asses the effectiveness of lockdown measures. They concluded that they were not working. The measures were then all nullified; no masks, schools, businesses and hospitality all open. Instead resources were targeted at the vulnerable. Imperial's modelling for the US said that in a state with a population the size of Florida there would be 143,000 deaths within months if no lockdown was in place. A year on and deaths stand at 30,00. Florida has a similar population density to the UK. It is more urban than here. The population is older, has more health issues and far greater levels of obesity. They have also had the Kent variant since December. The only thing in it's favour is the warmer climate. It should have been carnage according to all the lockdown enthusiasts yet it wasn't. Their economy shrank by 2.4% in 2020 compared to the 10% here. It's just one state but it shows that lockdowns don't have to be the first port of call. A bit late in the day now but this type of approach should have been researched thoroughly and discussed like adults. 

I'm still waiting by the way for you to point out the posts you say I've made cheering bad news.

Err, no.

Florida - 353.4 per sq mile. 22 million people.

UK - 723 per sq mile. 66 million people.

Edited by Vincent Blachshadow
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2 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Virus's naturally mutate, they all do. Our yearly flu jabs are only a guess of what it will be when it hits us in the autumn/winter, but it can be predicted so not so much a guess more an estimate. When the new COVID ones are first discovered, some scientists naturally fear the worst, but when patterns and effects are analysed by analysts they know more and are in a position to tell if the current virus will still work or identify what would need to be tweaked in the vaccine to accommodate the new strain. I would recommend viewing at programme that was on a couple of days ago on Horizon which explained perfectly the science behind the new strain, the vaccine assessment, the severity of it and the tracking techniques to identify and eliminate it. Two people can catch the new strain, but it can mutate according to each person, so the solution is only similar not the same. I just wish the DC2 Brains Trust on here would watch it, and educate themselves, instead of inventing the knowledge that they spout. 

I agree to a large extent. The virus will mutate into different strains. Then we differ though because I don't believe we can keep restricting people's work and private lives in case one of those strains is more serious. 

We have to get back to normality. A proper normality at that not some halfway house with the spectre of another lockdown never far away. 

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25 minutes ago, Shrub said:

 

I will go back to the point that no mention was made of immunity being achieved through recovering from the virus or from T cell immunity, it inferred it was only achieved by vaccination. That is not true. You know as well as I do that the facts can and have been interpreted in many ways, the programme, which I found interesting, offered only one interpretation and made no mention of other credible views. A good programme, but not balanced.

I've never made a claim to being a lockdown expert but have always said that the lockdown measures will kill far more than the virus will and almost daily evidence comes forward that backs that view. Tomorrow the chancellor will supposedly 'level with us' about the economic cost of the lockdown, around £280 billion so far, at some point it has to be paid for and it will be the young who will have to foot the bill, not the likes of you. Despite being at virtually zero risk the young have had their education ruined, have had their social lives taken from them and 60% of all job losses due to the lockdown have been amongst the under 25's. 

You keep stating nearly all governments have used lockdown as their go to tool but fail to add it's been a disaster virtually everywhere, especially here. Why isn't the situation in Florida more openly discussed? Back in September their governor called in a team of experts to asses the effectiveness of lockdown measures. They concluded that they were not working. The measures were then all nullified; no masks, schools, businesses and hospitality all open. Instead resources were targeted at the vulnerable. Imperial's modelling for the US said that in a state with a population the size of Florida there would be 143,000 deaths within months if no lockdown was in place. A year on and deaths stand at 30,00. Florida has a similar population density to the UK. It is more urban than here. The population is older, has more health issues and far greater levels of obesity. They have also had the Kent variant since December. The only thing in it's favour is the warmer climate. It should have been carnage according to all the lockdown enthusiasts yet it wasn't. Their economy shrank by 2.4% in 2020 compared to the 10% here. It's just one state but it shows that lockdowns don't have to be the first port of call. A bit late in the day now but this type of approach should have been researched thoroughly and discussed like adults. 

I'm still waiting by the way for you to point out the posts you say I've made cheering bad news.

No comment about the deliberate selection of the worst case scenario quoted by you, when the 2 suggested cases were both more likely. Typical BSF reporting .

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8 minutes ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

Err, no.

Florida - 353.4 per sq mile.

UK - 723 per sq mile.

Thank you for pointing that out. I made the mistake of taking the UK's as per square km, not miles. I found Florida's latest to be 397.2 by the way.  I will amend the post accordingly. Doesn't though, I feel detract from the overall point I was making.

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11 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

No comment about the deliberate selection of the worst case scenario quoted by you, when the 2 suggested cases were both more likely. Typical BSF reporting .

And no comment from you on the numerous points I made. 

If I remember rightly the 97% came if the R rose to 4, a figure it has never been close to. Why did they include it in the first place? To keep you happy I have just amended the post to say worse case scenario. I have now answered and addressed your questions. Now answer mine.

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Fear and panic on the streets of Split in Croatia yesterday...

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3 hours ago, Fenway Bleachers said:


This is a seasonal respiratory virus, it will all but disappear in the next week or two,

Of course I hope you are right, but Sweden have the third week in a row a rise of 10% in cases, and according to the tele the WHO have just announced after 6 weeks of falling off a worldwide rise of 7% in cases....

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