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Covid-19 Are we being told the truth ?

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50 minutes ago, DC2 said:

You need to know all the variables to make an accurate judgment.

Even “lockdown” needs to be defined.  

Is it something strict, like old people quarantining and being supported, or is it like this country where one, two or five members of the family go to work, shop or school and return home to infect others?

The more of the former, the fewer deaths, because it’s quarantine that works, not “lockdown”.

 

36 minutes ago, DC2 said:

So you’re holding up Portugal as a lockdown success?

Portugal Covid deaths per million 1660, Spain 1620.

Of course, what you’ll then say is that it comes in fits and starts in both countries and that the lockdowns coincide with lulls, but do they? 

I haven’t followed the two countries closely enough to know.

But we do know that it’s complicated because deaths can follow twenty eight days after lockdowns end and other variables may better explain changes: the prevailing season, strains, vaccines, climate, attitudes, personal behaviour, distancing, hand-washing and masks.

Why do you always twist what everyone says, particularly when the word 'lockdown' is mentioned? You seem to be paranoid that a lockdown might have had an influence on the pandemic! Where have I held up Portugal as a lockdown success. I was merely interested in how the country has managed to relax the restrictions as I have a property there. 

In February it was reported that Portugal had the highest case rate of 16,829 per million and 340 deaths per million and Spain at the same time had 10,500 case rates and 107 deaths per milliion. I find those facts quite startling for 2 countries on the same Iberian Peninsula. You may have gone some way to explaining the reasons why above but doesn't that just demonstrate the difficulties for any government to try to contain the virus?

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30 minutes ago, dj350z said:

 

Why do you always twist what everyone says, particularly when the word 'lockdown' is mentioned? You seem to be paranoid that a lockdown might have had an influence on the pandemic! Where have I held up Portugal as a lockdown success. I was merely interested in how the country has managed to relax the restrictions as I have a property there. 

In February it was reported that Portugal had the highest case rate of 16,829 per million and 340 deaths per million and Spain at the same time had 10,500 case rates and 107 deaths per milliion. I find those facts quite startling for 2 countries on the same Iberian Peninsula. You may have gone some way to explaining the reasons why above but doesn't that just demonstrate the difficulties for any government to try to contain the virus?

I have no axe to grind with DC2 but that was a particular ploy often adoped by Bwitcher which I used to find tiresome to say the least.

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If you believe you're a Conservative and you're not against vaccine passports then you need to reset your political antenna because you're not a Conservative.

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5 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I have no axe to grind with DC2 but that was a particular ploy often adoped by Bwitcher which I used to find tiresome to say the least.

Nor do I. I agree with a lot of what he says but to say I was holding up Portugal as a lockdown success is a total misrepresentation.

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36 minutes ago, Wolfsbane said:

If you believe you're a Conservative and you're not against vaccine passports then you need to reset your political antenna because you're not a Conservative.

On the other hand the wait for a political party or politician who you agree with on every subject would be a long one! 

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35 minutes ago, dj350z said:

Nor do I. I agree with a lot of what he says but to say I was holding up Portugal as a lockdown success is a total misrepresentation.

This is it. The whole thing is more complicated than holding up one State in the US and comparing it to a selected other, and concluding lockdowns don't work or on the other side, they do work....or masks do or don't work, if you pick the right country, state or village. Just like putting it down to good weather

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What was critically wrong in this country, and it always gets brushed under the carpet, is why were we not prepared for a pandemic or major emergency. Very seriously we don't invest in proper contingency plans, mainly on the basis of it being costly. I doubt this government have learnt a lesson from it and we will be caught with our pants down again before too long.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, jrs said:

What was critically wrong in this country, and it always gets brushed under the carpet, is why were we not prepared for a pandemic or major emergency. Very seriously we don't invest in proper contingency plans, mainly on the basis of it being costly. I doubt this government have learnt a lesson from it and we will be caught with our pants down again before too long.

 

Was one of the things I mentioned at the very beginning.....after all the preparation for a nuclear attack, keeping the sirens working and the films of school pupils cowering under their small wooden desks :D A pandemic has been predicted for a while, yet no country really coped well, in Europe at least. The plan in most seemed to be wait a bit and see what others are doing

Most of us will probably be laughing about it all in a few months, while one or two nameless members will still be cowering and shouting, don't go down the pub it's all a trick to get you to reset. Or don't go on holiday, you'll never be seen again, the lizard people will stick you on the Ever Green and ship you off .......:D

Edited by iris123
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1 hour ago, dj350z said:

 

Why do you always twist what everyone says, 

I don’t. I thought I was answering your point.

But if I misunderstood the point you were making I apologise.

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1 hour ago, dj350z said:

In February it was reported that Portugal had the highest case rate of 16,829 per million and 340 deaths per million and Spain at the same time had 10,500 case rates and 107 deaths per milliion. I find those facts quite startling for 2 countries on the same Iberian Peninsula. You may have gone some way to explaining the reasons why above but doesn't that just demonstrate the difficulties for any government to try to contain the virus?

It demonstrates how inherently useless stop and go lockdowns are, especially with their arbitrary and partial nature.

Think how much better and more consistent it would have been if we’d had supported quarantine for the vulnerable from February to April 2020 and from October to April 2021.

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42 minutes ago, DC2 said:

It demonstrates how inherently useless stop and go lockdowns are, especially with their arbitrary and partial nature.

Think how much better and more consistent it would have been if we’d had supported quarantine for the vulnerable from February to April 2020 and from October to April 2021.

This has been your standpoint virtually from day one, so who in the world has done this and was it successful?

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, stevehone said:

 

...put the question to the Home Secretary Patel? Apparently the Government doesn't recognise the figures quoted...if you can believe it?

Edited by steve roberts

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Posted (edited)

Whether Labour will vote for or against jab passports in the Commons depends on the date of the vote.

Before may 6th, will vote against, after may 6th, will vote for.

 

 

Edited by Wolfsbane
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