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Football 2020/21

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6 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

They'd never be in the running. Even if they happened to win the EPL, they'd be competing with larger teams in other countries for a few promotion places. 

It's the likes of the Everton's and cough... Newcastle's that have the potential to be big enough to sustain the level of competition, just as Man City have periodically languished in the lower leagues until fairly recent times. The same for the Celtic and Rangers, plus over in Europe the likes of Ajax, PSG and Marseille. 

You’ve just highlighted the problem.

If Southampton or Burnley won the PL it’s not beyond the realms of belief that they could beat Marseille and Dortmund to win promotion to the Super League and they’d then have to finance huge salaries to be able to compete.

Just as now, they have neither the crowds nor the merchandising revenue to compete with Man United.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I think that would be unlikely to happen. The UEFA Champions League alone generates well over a billion pounds in revenue each year, and the top teams in the top leagues would also bring much of their domestic revenue with them.

I think it's more likely that the rump EPL would run into difficulties if it was shorn of its biggest teams, and would significantly have to reduce its expectations. In reality, some sort of merger with the EFL Championship with a knock-on effect down the leagues.

...thru' possible diminishing lack of interest (especially if barred from playing in the domestic leagues) whereby playing the same teams may lose it's appeal. How many teans are expected to compete in the proposed "Super League?"

Edited by steve roberts

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10 hours ago, enotian said:

Just to play devils advocate here (since nobody in the actual media is prepared to) what if the big six merit their exclusive place based on their brand value and commercial pull?

Yes it's not sport but it ceased being a sport in the purest sense in the early 90's.

The wealth of any EPL club is largely dependant on worldwide appeal and associated TV rights and sponsorships.  How many English companies appear on shirts?  And that appeal is, with all due respect, not because Burnley might win it.  It's because the foreign audiences love the Man Utd etc brand and big name players.  They don't care that Spurs have won fewer titles than the League One team I support. Rid yourselves of the big six and watch that revenue disappear.

The demise of the proposal will be lauded as a victory over the commercialisation of the game by those who will then buy a new replica shirt, pay a fortune for a season ticket and Sky subscription.

And what will we be left with.  A Premier League that only six teams can win (Leicester was a miracle) and will never be relegated, even if they make terrible football decisions, and a Champions League that mostly those six will share entry to anyway which will now have even more meaningless lower standard matches for us to enjoy. 

Whilst I'd love the sport to return back to a more even playing field where smaller teams can prosper on sporting merit that ship sailed away over 1/4 of a century ago. 

All very valid points. I don't disagree with you at all. This Super League announcement was actually very predictable and - as you say - the culmination of decades of commercial interests above sport. Anyone who still felt that the clubs in the upper echelons are community institutions have now had that notion utterly stripped from them. Manchester United and Manchester City are no more community institutions than Coca Cola or Microsoft.

Man Utd are the one team in the six who I have ever had any affinity to. And even though they are American owned, there was a still a golden thread of heritage that ran through the club from Law, Best, Charlton and Busby through to Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville, Ferguson at the same Old Trafford ground playing attacking football with a core of home-grown players they have developed. I think that thread was snipped when they sacked David Moyes after less than a year and jettisoned Giggs. 

My (admittedly naive) hope is that this moment will be used to level the playing field. So clubs up to their eyeballs in debt or financed by owners outside businesses are properly punished with relegation and TV revenue is fairly distributed across the whole game. I find it hugely ironic when a club like Real Madrid bemoans uncompetitive matches when they have skewed the payments of TV revenue from La Liga to be massively in their favour and operate under massive debts to continue to hoover up the best players globally. It's less competitive because you made it so!

Had the Super League gone ahead, then have no doubt that Real Madrid would eventually be demanding a greater share of the pot than the likes of Arsenal. They will only ever be satisfied when they are winning every year, they are the highest earners and getting bigger every year. If they are worried about turning young people off football, then that's your recipe right there.

Football (still) has the capacity to surprise with Leicester winning the league and a couple of years ago Ajax rose from ashes and came close to winning the Champions League. That's what inspires and interests people. The sport has to restructure so moments like this are more likely and sporting merit counts for something. i won't hold my breath though.

 

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6 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...thru' possible diminishing lack of interest (especially if barred from playing in the domestic leagues) whereby playing the same teams may lose it's appeal. How many teans are expected to compete in the proposed "Super League?"

Think it was supposed to be 20 or so, although not all playing each other and continuing to play in their domestic leagues.

Not sure that playing the same 20 teams in a European League would be much different to playing the same 20 teams in the EPL though... 

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8 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...thru' possible diminishing lack of interest (especially if barred from playing in the domestic leagues) whereby playing the same teams may lose it's appeal. How many teans are expected to compete in the proposed "Super League?"

20. The same as the Premier League. Therefore, I don't know where this "same teams" argument came from.

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1 minute ago, falcace said:

My (admittedly naive) hope is that this moment will be used to level the playing field. So clubs up to their eyeballs in debt or financed by owners outside businesses are properly punished with relegation and TV revenue is fairly distributed across the whole game. I find it hugely ironic when a club like Real Madrid bemoans uncompetitive matches when they have skewed the payments of TV revenue from La Liga to be massively in their favour and operate under massive debts to continue to hoover up the best players globally. It's less competitive because you made it so!

It was truly ironic that the super league teams were looking to US leagues as the business model for sport, when those have long realised the importance of making as many teams as possible competitive. So have far more equitable distribution of revenue and playing talent than exists in football. 

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5 minutes ago, MattK said:

20. The same as the Premier League. Therefore, I don't know where this "same teams" argument came from.

Is there relegation proposed? I don't know or, to be honest, have much interest in the proposals only what I see on the news.

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1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

Is there relegation proposed? I don't know or, to be honest, have much interest in the proposals only what I see on the news.

No. 15 permanent teams and five "nominated" teams each season.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It was truly ironic that the super league teams were looking to US leagues as the business model for sport, when those have long realised the importance of making as many teams as possible competitive. So have far more equitable distribution of revenue and playing talent than exists in football. 

True Dat.

Where US sport is (surprisingly) at odds with the rest of society is in favouring the smaller teams to get first picks in the draft system from the massive collegiate sport system. But its also another example why US sport simply doesn't translate to Europe.

Community sport, not Higher/Further Education Sport is the life blood of elite sport across Europe....it's almost non existent in the US. Guys like Ian Wright literally came through the grass roots of Sunday League Football.

 

Edited by falcace

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Oh well, panic over! All six English clubs withdraw!!!

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55 minutes ago, norbold said:

Oh well, panic over! All six English clubs withdraw!!!

Yep, back to the English Super League with 14 other clubs making up the numbers.

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John Barnes gave a good interview this morning on the BBC , calling it a power. Struggle which UEFA won .

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8 minutes ago, topaz325 said:

John Barnes gave a good interview this morning on the BBC , calling it a power. Struggle which UEFA won .

I suspect though, that UEFA will have to countenance some sort of Super League in future to head off other renegade efforts, which is perhaps what this was all about all along as it's otherwise hard to understand the thinking of those clubs that they could get away with it. Their revamped Champions League is even more of an abomination and I can't see their plan to use the so-called 'Swiss format' for deciding the fixtures is really going to be acceptable in the long term. 

Rarely strangely, it's not actually the three or four biggest leagues that would benefit from something like this anyway, as they're already able to sell their product around the world. It's the 'big fish' in the Scottish, Dutch, Belgian, Portuguese even French leagues who'd gain more exposure. 

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7 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Rarely strangely, it's not actually the three or four biggest leagues that would benefit from something like this anyway, as they're already able to sell their product around the world. It's the 'big fish' in the Scottish, Dutch, Belgian, Portuguese even French leagues who'd gain more exposure. 

Careful, I think you said “Scottish” there.  :D

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