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Sidney the robin

In what order would you place these Aussie greats???

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34 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

 

 

Collins if fit probably would of won that final, for me Lee in  77/ 79/83 could of won another three world titles.

Peter Collins could quite easily have won three titles on the trot if some idiot hadn't let loose with the hose pipe in 1975 and his cruel injury picked up just prior to the 1977 Final. We would now be contemplating Peter being perhaps England's greatest rider? Funny how fate can turn a cruel hand!

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39 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Peter Collins could quite easily have won three titles on the trot if some idiot hadn't let loose with the hose pipe in 1975 and his cruel injury picked up just prior to the 1977 Final. We would now be contemplating Peter being perhaps England's greatest rider? Funny how fate can turn a cruel hand!

Don't forget the "sugar-in-the-tank" episode at the 78 British Final... That could have been four on the bounce.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, chunky said:

Don't forget the "sugar-in-the-tank" episode at the 78 British Final... That could have been four on the bounce.

Attended said meeting and witnessed White City's Gordon Kennett sneak thru' to his one and only World Final and going on and very nearly winning it (which I missed due to a pre-booked holiday to Jersey as my brother keeps reminding me!!)

Edited by steve roberts

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1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

 

 

Collins if fit probably would of won that final, for me Lee in  77/ 79/83 could of won another three world titles.

Sure. But you are forgetting the assumption. You said if Crump snr had wheeled out the Street conversion at the world final he might well have won. I am just saying if any of those just out of the top wheeled out a major technical advantage they could also have won. It is a technical advantage and not the rider, who would have made the difference. Just as many assume it was Müller's fair or unfair advantages that won him the title.

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2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Peter Collins could quite easily have won three titles on the trot if some idiot hadn't let loose with the hose pipe in 1975 and his cruel injury picked up just prior to the 1977 Final. We would now be contemplating Peter being perhaps England's greatest rider? Funny how fate can turn a cruel hand!

If he had won even 3 in a row i think he would be considered more or less unanimously englands greatest post war rider. As it stands id rank him below Tai and the other PC, but i know others who would still rank him top

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4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Remember Carter refering that Muller was on an illegal machine, how many laps did Egon get to do at Norden before the final. ?

As many as he wanted I guess. Just like the Swedes and the Poles gave their riders plenty of track time when they were staging the final.

It was only England that wouldn't give their riders extra practice. God forbid our riders getting any kind of advantage!

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10 hours ago, norbold said:

Hmm...difficult one that. Especially deciding between Crump Jnr and Youngie for no. 1. Apart from Fundin, Crump Jnr is the only rider to finish on the podium in ten successive seasons which should make him the no.1. However, I would say that at no time was he clearly the best rider in the world in the same way that Young was. Young dominated the early 1950s in the same way as say Rickardsson did in the 2000s. To offset that however, Youngie was not in or around the elite for as long as Crumpie. My instinct would be that if we are looking at Young just in the first three or four years of the 1950s, then he would be top. If over their whole career, then Crump Jnr.

So, having weighed all that up, I would go for 1. Crump Jnr 2. Young 3. Adams 4. Sanders 5. Crump Snr.

Agree with this list. Sanders vs Crump is interesting. I'd be inclined to rate Crump the better rider - both for longevity and peak ability- but Billy unquestionably had the better world final record, which is the ultimate measure.

If we were to throw in other Aussies from the modern era I'd have Doyle at three, and Holder just behind Adams. Where to put Darcy is a real question mark, probably I'd have him behind Doyle. 

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10 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Would Muller even on a monster of an engine ever of won a final outside of Germany i have my doubts.In 1983 you had to be there to witness how dominant he was on the day he destroyed a very good line up.

An awful final, not the greatest line up, but the first world final i attended and Muller as you say destroyed the field. I think a GP series on the big Polish tracks of today would have suited him immensely. I'd suggest his mid-table placing in the 81 world final gives a pretty fair indication of his ability in comparison to others of that era.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

Agree with this list. Sanders vs Crump is interesting. I'd be inclined to rate Crump the better rider - both for longevity and peak ability- but Billy unquestionably had the better world final record, which is the ultimate measure.

If we were to throw in other Aussies from the modern era I'd have Doyle at three, and Holder just behind Adams. Where to put Darcy is a real question mark, probably I'd have him behind Doyle. 

I agree that Billy was the better rider on the international stage (Individual & Pairs) but rated Phil the better of the two at domestic level. Never saw Doyle or Holder ride and unfortunately I am only aware of Ward's off track 'activities'.

Edited by steve roberts

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10 hours ago, Terry said:

As many as he wanted I guess. Just like the Swedes and the Poles gave their riders plenty of track time when they were staging the final.

It was only England that wouldn't give their riders extra practice. God forbid our riders getting any kind of advantage!

Freddie Williams

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9 minutes ago, JOS50 said:

Freddie Williams

Fair enough. I was thinking more Wembley in the 70's.

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5 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I agree that Billy was the better rider on the international stage (Individual & Pairs) but rated Phil the better of the two at domestic level. Never saw Doyle or Holder ride and unfortunately I am only aware of Ward's off track 'activities'.

get on youtube and watch Ward. imo, the most exciting rider to watch of my era watching speedway (80s onwards)

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11 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

get on youtube and watch Ward. imo, the most exciting rider to watch of my era watching speedway (80s onwards)

 

Darcy Ward was the rider who could do everything, including things I’d never seen before.

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Darcy Ward was the rider who could do everything, including things I’d never seen before.

 

Those few months he rode for the Robins however brief was a real privilege he was so quick great from the back.However brief the stint was, for me he goes alongside Briggs, Crump x 2) Ashby, Kilby, Broadbanks, Adams, Autrey, as one of the best Swindon riders that i ever saw.The Speedway world were robbed of seeing Darcy fulfill his mega potential i just hope whatever he is doing now in life  he is happy.

 

Edited by Sidney the robin
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